Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[Franko]

Prime Tyson would spark an old ass Ali for sure! Id say even the Ali that beat Foreman with relative ease, u just cant lay on the ropes with Iron mike! Ive bn watching Ali and Holmes fights today and to be fair there aint much in it chin wise. But il say this if Shavers connected with the punch that dropped Holmes on Ali he woulda went down too! Can i ask u sumit, how do U rate greatness? By accomplishments and stats or do u take each fighter in ur mind and pit them against each other? Just curious before i name my number 1

I'd have to say accomplishments. I think it's all very well rating one fighter against another, but that is only theory and opinions. I think that greatness has to be achieved.

[The Surgeon]

I'd have to say accomplishments. I think it's all very well rating one fighter against another, but that is only theory and opinions. I think that greatness has to be achieved.

Fair point. In that case Id go with Joe Louis followed closely by ur boy Ali!

[The Surgeon]

Watching Ali Frazier 2 the other day, i was amazed at how fast his hands were. We all know Ali was fast, but after his lay off he is always said to be slower. Im not sure if he lost any hand speed.

I could see him laying some big flurries on Tyson, and tying him up. Frustrating the **** outa him.

I can see Ali meeting Tyson head on at the beginning, the same way he did Frazier and Liston. Then later on wen Tyson was less energetic he could dance and use his jab effectively.

Yeah i was watching his fights the other day too and he still had those rapid hands! Slower on his feet tho. The tying up Ali dun while smart kinda pissed me off. I mean it is a illegal after all.

[Mr. Ryan]

The idea that Muhammad Ali isn't the greatest heavyweight champion of all time is totally ludicrous. To me, it's like this:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano

Ali beat so many great fighters, winning the title at 22 by stopping a seemingly indestructible Sonny Liston. He held the title for 3 years beating some serious competition, then got stripped, only to regain the title 10 years after he first won it. He beat George Foreman, Frazier twice, Norton twice, Earnie Shavers, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, the list goes on and on.

[Franko]

The idea that Muhammad Ali isn't the greatest heavyweight champion of all time is totally ludicrous. To me, it's like this:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano

Ali beat so many great fighters, winning the title at 22 by stopping a seemingly indestructible Sonny Liston. He held the title for 3 years beating some serious competition, then got stripped, only to regain the title 10 years after he first won it. He beat George Foreman, Frazier twice, Norton twice, Earnie Shavers, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, the list goes on and on.

Couldn't agree more.

[-Antonio-]

The idea that Muhammad Ali isn't the greatest heavyweight champion of all time is totally ludicrous. To me, it's like this:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano

Ali beat so many great fighters, winning the title at 22 by stopping a seemingly indestructible Sonny Liston. He held the title for 3 years beating some serious competition, then got stripped, only to regain the title 10 years after he first won it. He beat George Foreman, Frazier twice, Norton twice, Earnie Shavers, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, the list goes on and on.

You're so right. Ali is undisputed king of the Heavies.

[them_apples]

I could see Ali crumpling to the canvas from a Tyson left hook in about the 4th.

you can't compare a guy from the 70's to a guy from the 80's.

Tyson knocked a few guys on there ass that have "never been knocked down" before. Frazier did good against Ali however, as Ali said..Frazier is slow. Tyson is fast. Speed is the most useful skill to have, but it takes the most work.

[Xyei]

This article just proves that you can take any fighter's record and make it look like **** and diminish accomplishments by pointing out the bad.

[TheGreatA]

This article just proves that you can take any fighter's record and make it look like **** and diminish accomplishments by pointing out the bad.

Agreed.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=74036&page=22
This thread is a perfect example.

Many posters in this forum have a hard time staying objective while analyzing a boxer's resume.

They may praise one fighter for doing something and criticize another for doing the same.

For example, praising Marciano for defeating such greats like Louis, Walcott and Charles but dismissing Ali's accomplishments because the fighters he beat were 'past their prime' (Patterson, Liston, Frazier)...

[Sugarj]

I'm convinced that the Third fight with Frazier was so damaging that the seeds were sown for Ali's Parkinsons syndrome. His speech was never slurred before this 1975 fight yet it did go down hill quite noticeably since.

There are even times in the 1976/77 movie staring himself 'The Greatest' where he has that sadly vacant expression and his speach are clearly then not what they were. No suprise that he lost to Spinks, Holmes and Berbick, he was clearly suffering from the early sighs of the syndrome.

For anyone to have beaten the likes of Norton and Shavers while affected by the early onset on Parkinsons is remarkable in itself and you only have to listen to the post fight interview with Ali after his fight with Berbick to realise he was an ill man.......and he did win a few rounds that night!