Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[Frazier's 15th round]

in comparison, frazier was floored in just his 5th career bout.

It was his second career fight, against Mike Bruce.

[butterfly1964]

ali was in his prime vs cooper. it was the fight before ali beat liston.



ali was just 206lb vs liston, was he not in his prime for that fight?


ali was just 203lb vss kerl midlenbergar in 1966, was he not in his prime for that fight?

how could you be in your prime at 21yrs. of age? ali looked like a skinny little high school boy in that fight. and ali's first fight with liston wasn't his prime either. his prime was either with williams or with folley.

sure ali was 206 against liston, but only because he trained real hard. if you look at ali vs. liston the second time, and then ali vs. cooper the first time, ali against liston looked much bigger in size, despite the fact that he weighed less in that fight. ali had like no body fat in that fight, and he certainly didn't look little.

and you probably looked at boxrec for ali's weight against milden berger, cause no way he weighed that little. in fact i remember the announcer saying something like 212 1/2lb. or something like that against mildenberger.

[BKM-]

[QUOTE=butterfly1964]how could you be in your prime at 21yrs. of age?QUOTE]

Look at Tyson. Prime at 20.

[Yogi]

and ali's first fight with liston wasn't his prime either. his prime was either with williams or with folley.

I'd say Ali was in his prime versus Liston and even though he didn't quite have the upperbody (specifically in the shoulders) mass that he did against Williams, for example, with these eyes of mine he does appear to be slightly quicker of hand & foot against Sonny.

With consideration given to the quality of his opponent he was in against, the first fight with Liston just may have been the best version of Ali that I've seen.

[butterfly1964]

I'd say Ali was in his prime versus Liston and even though he didn't quite have the upperbody (specifically in the shoulders) mass that he did against Williams, for example, with these eyes of mine he does appear to be slightly quicker of hand & foot against Sonny.

With consideration given to the quality of his opponent he was in against, the first fight with Liston just may have been the best version of Ali that I've seen.

well, dundee says it's with folley.

[butterfly1964]

Look at Tyson. Prime at 20.

yeah, but if tyson didn't have those problems, then he would be better at lets say, 27.

[BKM-]

yeah, but if tyson didn't have those problems, then he would be better at lets say, 27.

I think Ali could have been even better if he didn't loose those 3 years. Its a dam shame what they did to him.

[butterfly1964]

I think Ali could have been even better if he didn't loose those 3 years. Its a dam shame what they did to him.

definetely, he would be one scary mofo. he would have had more power, strength, accuracy, combined with the great speed he already had, maaan, no way he would lose to frazier, norton or spinks.

[Yogi]

well, dundee says it's with folley.

Yeah well, see the thing is...I ain't Dundee, and have the ability to judge with my own eyes.

[butterfly1964]

Yeah well, see the thing is...I ain't Dundee, and have the ability to judge with my own eyes.

well, dundee worked with ali for 21 years, so (no offense), but i would rather believe the guy that trained him and know exactly what his strengths and weaknesses were, and the way he progressed in certain fights from others, etc., than you.