Marciano, Walcott and Charles

[billeau2]

Look man..Mercer was a 220 lb Olympic Gold Medalist that hit like a truck.
Mercer would beat Tunney,Dempsey,Johnson,Marciano,Liston,Patterson,
and probably Louis...BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE'S GREATER THAN THOSE
GUYS..

Now we are in absurdity land and you are officially a dope. Apply logic it won;t harm and might help you.

[BattlingNelson]

People talk like Wladimir is a hard puncher and has a better chin because he is bigger. If Wladimir didn't juice in the amateurs he would be like Carl Williams. I agree Marciano and Walcott would have a hard time with Wladimir but they very well could have knocked him out too. How can we tell, because guys like Povetkin didn't... seriously!!

I suggest you provide a source for postulating that Wlad juiced in the AM's.

[Cyberspace]

I suggest you provide a source for postulating that Wlad juiced in the AM's.

This is not an attack on the Klitschkos. It is no secret and I am only presenting the facts. One of the brothers tested positive but we have to assume if both brothers bulked up a lot at the same time together in the same amateur program that innocence is questionable.

This was a from a post of a veteran Kllitschko fan here on Vitali.

WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko revealed in a new autobiography published by Random House Entertainment in Germany that he inadvertently used a banned steroid as an amateur. Klitscko wrote that he given a steroid prior to the 1996 Olympics to treat an injury, then was thrown off the Ukraine Olympic team after failing a drug test. The book, titled "Unter Brüdern," is co-written by Vitali and brother Wladimir Klitschko and details their life story to date. Note: Vitali, who defends his world title against Danny Williams on December 11 in Las Vegas has always tested clean as a professional.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=55810

also
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...oid-abuse.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/...xing/17575047/

[BattlingNelson]

This is not an attack on the Klitschkos. It is no secret and I am only presenting the facts. One of the brothers tested positive but we have to assume if both brothers bulked up a lot at the same time together in the same amateur program that innocence is questionable.

This was a from a post of a veteran Kllitschko fan here on Vitali.

WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko revealed in a new autobiography published by Random House Entertainment in Germany that he inadvertently used a banned steroid as an amateur. Klitscko wrote that he given a steroid prior to the 1996 Olympics to treat an injury, then was thrown off the Ukraine Olympic team after failing a drug test. The book, titled "Unter Brüdern," is co-written by Vitali and brother Wladimir Klitschko and details their life story to date. Note: Vitali, who defends his world title against Danny Williams on December 11 in Las Vegas has always tested clean as a professional.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=55810

also
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...oid-abuse.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/...xing/17575047/

So you have nothing on Wlad?

Vitali has been well documented ages ago.

[Scott9945]

Your way off Scott....Your analysis of size is way off at least. I don't know how you can say Walcott was not as big as Frazier. Tua is a physical oddity BTW and Tyson was the average size for a decent heavy. Clancey is right, after about 200 or so its almost academic, and there is more to size than just weight. Certainly Walcott was the size of a guy like Frazier.

These guys were all heavyweights when they were teenagers. They never could have fought at around 160 like Walcott and Charles. True size isn't accurately measured by numerical dimensions. Walcott fighting Frazier would likely produce a similar result to Frazier beating Ellis or Foster. The real heavyweight won convincingly.

[billeau2]

These guys were all heavyweights when they were teenagers. They never could have fought at around 160 like Walcott and Charles. True size isn't accurately measured by numerical dimensions. Walcott fighting Frazier would likely produce a similar result to Frazier beating Ellis or Foster. The real heavyweight won convincingly.

! weight fluctuates a lot more than you may think. I was around 175 and became 245 pretty quick, it depends. A lot has to do with what you are training to do, metabolism. Arnold Cream always looked a lot bigger than that when he fought, Charles was on the small side.

[Holywarrior]

They would all struggle badly against the "moderns" aka 60s on up. It's just how it is. Walcott's best win is probably being knocked out by Rocky Marciano. Imagine if even a guy like Mercer or Ruddock got hold of him.

[Ray Corso]

Regardless of the fantasy outcomes I can tell you without doubt that Rud**** or Mercer do NOT have the talents & skills of Walcott or Marciano and Charles is in another league all together in the talent and experience departments.
Both Charles and Walcott are better boxers and have enough pop to keep both Mercer & Rud**** at bay.
Charles was an outstanding boxer in the frame work of a Sugar Ray Robinson, he had lateral movement and in & out shake an had ALL the combos. To many younger fans think because these guys are from the late 40s though the 50s to 60s that their stuck in the mud can't move and punch in combo fighters. Your wrong!! Ezzard's talents are far above anything Wlad has ever seen. The closest fighter in style would be Evander and Evander can't move the way Charles could. I think everyone agree's that a prime Evander gives any of the newer era fighters great fights!
To me Charles is a top fifty all time talent in all classes. He had tremendous natural gifts and was a very talented man.
In all honesty would you rather watch Wlad or Charles?
That's like Herman Munster vs Fred Astaire !!! Ray

[Suckmedry]

According to Gil Clancy, once you get close to 200 pounds it doesn't make any difference. When these guys hit you they can get you out of there.

This is very, very true. Obviously ability to generate power increases with weight, but a trained fighter that can punch and weighs 200 or close to it is physically capable of taking any man out. We saw that with Dempsey-Willard. The 185lb puncher absolutely floored a strong if cumbersome 245lb man. Plus ive seen guys like weigh like 130kgs so thats like what 285lb get knocked cold by 210-230lbers.

Speculation on these fights can go on and on. Wlad is slow and awkward compared to these guys, but for his size he isnt too bad and he can definitely punch hard enough to stop these guys, so the matchup does favour him in many regards, but like Ray said he has never seen the movement of a Charles, and certainly never the inside pressure and ferocity of a Marciano, despite the vast size difference. I certainly believe Marciano is physically capable of stopping Wlad, despite the 50-60lb weight difference. Obviously his chances to land depend heavily on if Wlad can keep him at bay and land something to hurt him before he burrows in and lands something.

wlad would probably win though, but these guys are all 180 190 lbers, its only anything close to a fair fight because of the incredible abilities of these men

[billeau2]

Regardless of the fantasy outcomes I can tell you without doubt that Rud**** or Mercer do NOT have the talents & skills of Walcott or Marciano and Charles is in another league all together in the talent and experience departments.
Both Charles and Walcott are better boxers and have enough pop to keep both Mercer & Rud**** at bay.
Charles was an outstanding boxer in the frame work of a Sugar Ray Robinson, he had lateral movement and in & out shake an had ALL the combos. To many younger fans think because these guys are from the late 40s though the 50s to 60s that their stuck in the mud can't move and punch in combo fighters. Your wrong!! Ezzard's talents are far above anything Wlad has ever seen. The closest fighter in style would be Evander and Evander can't move the way Charles could. I think everyone agree's that a prime Evander gives any of the newer era fighters great fights!
To me Charles is a top fifty all time talent in all classes. He had tremendous natural gifts and was a very talented man.
In all honesty would you rather watch Wlad or Charles?
That's like Herman Munster vs Fred Astaire !!! Ray

Well....As a Munster's fan I would rather see Gwen as Herman M.... Seriously great post as usual. Holyfield was great with respect to endurance, swarming, etc. But seems to me he was strictly in and out with very little in the way of lateral movement. Arnold Cream and Charles had lateral movement HENCE more economy of footwork...which one can do when they properly utilize lateral movement.