Marciano, Walcott and Charles

[StarshipTrooper]

Forgot about the rematch... That's a valid point, maybe Jesse just had his number...

What other clever boxers did he face,, I thought prime he only lost to Jesse, holy, and Lennox...
Honestly can't remember any clever boxers off the top,of my head he faced.. What fights you referring to besides the ones mentioned...I believe what your saying just curious what fights you refer to, I'm drawing a blank

Ancient Larry Holmes. Who, if nothing else at that point in his career, was clever.

[phallus]

They would be huge underdogs thats for sure. They all had great skillsets in their own way, that ensures that a fight would not be a foregone conclusion.

Take Marciano for instance. He was a superb infighter and had a vicious bodyattack. When getting into close combat, height and reach is certainly not an advantage.

Another thing is that size is not the end all be all statistic. History has plenty of examples of smaller guys beating up giants.

You will hear so much crap on this subject if you revisit threads. One simply has to understand that fighters have always been in control of what they should weigh as a strategic consideration and that for most of boxing history I did not want to weigh a lot.

Lets go back in time to before Walcott and co....if we are getting ready to fight for a great length of time I want to he lean, strong and mean, and heres what people fail so badly at realizing. If you were to get big and try to take my head off from a squarred position? the milisecond your shoulder came past your center line I would gently grapple you, slightly helping to turn you just a little more past that line....then stick a hooking fist into your kidneys....HENCE! why people didnt want to be big, squared up and trying to do what most fighters like to pride themselves on doing today. No sir you would prolly want to be around 190 or so, with great toughness and endurance and be schooled in the mechanics of how to keep away, atack, hook, GRAPPLE, etc.

There is no reason in this world or the next why A guy like Charles could not bulk up and come in at around 210 or so at the very least...heck even today look at what a skilled throwback guy like Toney did to the legitmate heavies...Being called a tub of lard all the way as he beat the chiseled Rahman and....THREW more punches than the athletic Rahman to boot!

Skills make better fighters.
More determination make better fighters
Being ****ed with and a minority make hungry vis a vis better fighters
Better endurance and usable strength make better fighters
these are all traits lacking today
And....WEIGHT? does not make better fighters whether it be muscle, tallness or fat. Take a look at a pic of Prima Canera when he was rolling....Dude was a ****ing monster, all muscle to boot....So what?

The Klits can punch but have never had the endurance, the strenght of will, the footwork skills to be taken seriously by people who are really aware of those things. Lewis was a good fighter and more determined than many realize. But look at what happened when he met a talented manuverable smaller heavy. Mccall in particular had a lot of talent. No weight in the world would have saved Lewis from that shot.

I dont see any of these modern boxers doing anything against these guys, all of which where more skilled than their modern counterparts. Even Marciano, who was often considered just a brute. Jesery Joe had one of the sneakiest trickiest styles and good set ups, and he was already aged by the time he had his run.

the old guys had to have a lot more endurance for 15 round fights, they wanted to be as light as they could be on fight night, they also had a lot more fights and experience than modern fighters. skill and determination matters more than size, as one poster pointed out 190 lb 6'1" jack dempsey ktfo'd giant 245 lb 6'6" jess willard, and broke several of his bones. alot of today's hw division is less skilled than 50's and 60's hws, old school styled little james toney shamed a couple of hw champions. the real question isn't who is bigger, is it who has the better skills?

[crold1]

They would be huge underdogs thats for sure. They all had great skillsets in their own way, that ensures that a fight would not be a foregone conclusion.

Take Marciano for instance. He was a superb infighter and had a vicious bodyattack. When getting into close combat, height and reach is certainly not an advantage.

Another thing is that size is not the end all be all statistic. History has plenty of examples of smaller guys beating up giants.

Heavyweight size has varied. There have always been super heavies. George Godfrey, Buddy Baer, Harry Wills though he was more tall than super big...they were tough hombres. That era in particular featured some smaller guys and oldr guys. Prior to the rise of Liston and Williams types in the 50s, there are only certain guys I'd pick over the Bowe's and Lewis's of the more regular sized heavies. Louis in particular because he handled the full range of sizes and styles.

[Scott9945]

Ancient Larry Holmes. Who, if nothing else at that point in his career, was clever.

And Holmes beat him rather handily. Mercer would have had the title shot against Holyfield that Holmes got instead.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Ancient Larry Holmes. Who, if nothing else at that point in his career, was clever.

Damn... Totally forgot about that fight... Good call... Hadn't thought about that fight in years...

[StarshipTrooper]

And Holmes beat him rather handily. Mercer would have had the title shot against Holyfield that Holmes got instead.

Damn... Totally forgot about that fight... Good call... Hadn't thought about that fight in years...

I've always likened that fight to Mercer having a 12 round brain-fart :chuckle9:

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I've always likened that fight to Mercer having a 12 round brain-fart :chuckle9:

Yeah, like he had never seen a jab before.. Total deer in the headlights look..

[LoadedWraps]

I stopped reading when I saw the "Walcott got KTFO by a tomato can named Marciano, imagine what Ray Mercer would have done to him" post

it's just ridiculous.

[#1Assassin]

3 heavyweight champions who weighed no more than 185 pound that makes them small cruiserweights today and probably with day before weigh in maybe even light heavyweights, can anyone on here explain to me, let's say win me over that they would be able to beat the likes of super sized heavyweights Lennox Lewis, rid**** bowe, vitali and wladmir? Is there much of a chance? I think they would just be destroyed way to small, but can u change my view on this?

they wouldnt be destroyed. sure they have a big disadvantage in size but they also have big advantages in skill and knowledge, fighters back then honed their craft in a way fighter dont today.

dont get me wrong, they would probably lose in most instances. but those guys today arent smart or skilled enough to walk through them. they would use their size to grapple, roughhouse and wear them down before ost likely stopping them down the stretch, but early they would be hitting air.

[toooooool]

Yeah, like he had never seen a jab before.. Total deer in the headlights look..

The problem was Larry Holmes,not a brain fart or deer in headlights etc.
Larry Holmes is arguably the greatest heavyweight of all times and even
at age 42,a jab is the last thing to go!!