My rankings

[Sugar Adam Ali]

You guys think kalambay was better than Michael Watson? Watson was a mw wasn't he? Or was he SMW

[mickey malone]

You guys think kalambay was better than Michael Watson? Watson was a mw wasn't he? Or was he SMW

Watson was a middleweight, and only moved up for Eubank II
they're 1st fight, which imo, Watson had the better of, was fought at 160

Watson and Kalambay would have been a good fight, and I'd have had my money on 'The Force'

[Humean]

Humean I strongly suspect you have just made a list of 16 random middleweight champions and are now attempting to see whether you can make up bull**** justifications for them.

Nope. But at least I can justify my judgements.

Kalambay was a star in his comfort zone in Europe. When I evaluate records I also look at how they performed outside of that comfort zone. Eder Jofre would be an example of someone who adapted well.

The Nunn loss was no fluke. He got caught cold but it was as clean of a KO as you can get. Losing to Thomas was okay, unless you are talking about the alleged #6 middleweight of all time. All the names you listed were (at best) second tier fighters. Under any criteria, Kalambay has no business being on a top 25 all time middleweight list.

I'm not denying it was a clear knockout and an impressive win for Nunn, i'm saying it was hardly reflective of their relative merits as fighters. It was a lucky event.

So I take it you have very few American fighters on your all time list? Let me list every American middleweight that is routinely considered a top 20 all time middleweight, I shall put in bold the ones that won a meaningful/significant fight outside of the United States at middleweight:

Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Mickey Walker
Billy Papke
Marvin Hagler
Tony Zale
Tommy Ryan
Jake LaMotta
Tiger Flowers
Charley Burley
Billy Conn
Holman Williams
Gene Fullmer
Bernard Hopkins
Joey Giardello
Freddie Steele
Mike Gibbons
Bobo Olson

Impressive reading. I'm sure you and others will criticize all those not in bold very harshly for not fighting out of their comfort zone . . .

Do I really need to list the notable non-American middleweights who won significant/meaningful fights outside their own country? A list that of course includes Sumbu Kalambay.

A majority (54%) of the modern inductees of the International Boxing Hall of Fame are Americans and an even greater number (i'd say 90% plus) fought major fights in the US. They have one solitary Japanese fighter in there (Fighting Harada), remarkably few other Asian fighters (4%) and Europeans (11%). All this suggests a pattern of bias, hmm what can it possibly be?

I see you've met the pinhead :chuckle9:

No doubt. The pinhead (Humeatard) was meeting his all important "Modern Euro" quota with that one.....though Benn or Eubank would have been better choices even if they did spend most of their career at Super-Middle.

Why does poet682006 post here when every post is like this?

Here's my theory:
He seems to get an erection everytime the Klitschkos, myself and no doubt some others are referenced on here and the only way he can cleanse himself from his wicked feelings of the flesh is through cyber-flagellation whereby he must make as many vicious and false comments against the Klitschkos, myself, or others as possible. If only he possessed more than a handful of brain cells his cyber-flagellation might actually possess a dose of wit. Unfortunately it does not.

I just don't even read the posts anymore and if I do I just chuckle and keep scrolling.

You might actually learn something instead of being convinced by your own circular reasoning all the time.

Lets see all your lists:
Scott9945
RubenSonny
BattlingNelson
mickey malone
Anthony342
IronDanHamza

I'm sure they will all be very interesting, not the least bit like practically ever other list some other 'historian' had made. Maybe one of you actually has an original thought instead of a regurgitation. Fingers crossed.

[RubenSonny]

Nope. But at least I can justify my judgements.



I'm not denying it was a clear knockout and an impressive win for Nunn, i'm saying it was hardly reflective of their relative merits as fighters. It was a lucky event.

So I take it you have very few American fighters on your all time list? Let me list every American middleweight that is routinely considered a top 20 all time middleweight, I shall put in bold the ones that won a meaningful/significant fight outside of the United States at middleweight:

Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Mickey Walker
Billy Papke
Marvin Hagler
Tony Zale
Tommy Ryan
Jake LaMotta
Tiger Flowers
Charley Burley
Billy Conn
Holman Williams
Gene Fullmer
Bernard Hopkins
Joey Giardello
Freddie Steele
Mike Gibbons
Bobo Olson

Impressive reading. I'm sure you and others will criticize all those not in bold very harshly for not fighting out of their comfort zone . . .

Do I really need to list the notable non-American middleweights who won significant/meaningful fights outside their own country? A list that of course includes Sumbu Kalambay.

A majority (54%) of the modern inductees of the International Boxing Hall of Fame are Americans and an even greater number (i'd say 90% plus) fought major fights in the US. They have one solitary Japanese fighter in there (Fighting Harada), remarkably few other Asian fighters (4%) and Europeans (11%). All this suggests a pattern of bias, hmm what can it possibly be?




Why does poet682006 post here when every post is like this?

Here's my theory:
He seems to get an erection everytime the Klitschkos, myself and no doubt some others are referenced on here and the only way he can cleanse himself from his wicked feelings of the flesh is through cyber-flagellation whereby he must make as many vicious and false comments against the Klitschkos, myself, or others as possible. If only he possessed more than a handful of brain cells his cyber-flagellation might actually possess a dose of wit. Unfortunately it does not.




You might actually learn something instead of being convinced by your own circular reasoning all the time.

Lets see all your lists:
Scott9945
RubenSonny
BattlingNelson
mickey malone
Anthony342
IronDanHamza

I'm sure they will all be very interesting, not the least bit like practically ever other list some other 'historian' had made. Maybe one of you actually has an original thought instead of a regurgitation. Fingers crossed.

Thinking your Will Hunting or something...ahh the irony

[StarshipTrooper]

Why does poet682006 post here when every post is like this?

Here's my theory:
He seems to get an erection everytime the Klitschkos, myself and no doubt some others are referenced on here and the only way he can cleanse himself from his wicked feelings of the flesh is through cyber-flagellation whereby he must make as many vicious and false comments against the Klitschkos, myself, or others as possible. If only he possessed more than a handful of brain cells his cyber-flagellation might actually possess a dose of wit. Unfortunately it does not.

And like all of your pinhead theories this one too is wrong. I post here because I have no tolerance for ******ity and even less tolerance for ******ity that goes full ****** and tries to mask itself in pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.

Bottom-line is I don't suffer fools gladly; and you, Sir, are a fool.

[Scott9945]

I'm not denying it was a clear knockout and an impressive win for Nunn, i'm saying it was hardly reflective of their relative merits as fighters. It was a lucky event.

So I take it you have very few American fighters on your all time list? Let me list every American middleweight that is routinely considered a top 20 all time middleweight, I shall put in bold the ones that won a meaningful/significant fight outside of the United States at middleweight:

Stanley Ketchel
Sugar Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Mickey Walker
Billy Papke
Marvin Hagler
Tony Zale
Tommy Ryan
Jake LaMotta
Tiger Flowers
Charley Burley
Billy Conn
Holman Williams
Gene Fullmer
Bernard Hopkins
Joey Giardello
Freddie Steele
Mike Gibbons
Bobo Olson

Impressive reading. I'm sure you and others will criticize all those not in bold very harshly for not fighting out of their comfort zone . . .

Do I really need to list the notable non-American middleweights who won significant/meaningful fights outside their own country? A list that of course includes Sumbu Kalambay.

A majority (54%) of the modern inductees of the International Boxing Hall of Fame are Americans and an even greater number (i'd say 90% plus) fought major fights in the US. They have one solitary Japanese fighter in there (Fighting Harada), remarkably few other Asian fighters (4%) and Europeans (11%). All this suggests a pattern of bias, hmm what can it possibly be?




Why does poet682006 post here when every post is like this?

Here's my theory:
He seems to get an erection everytime the Klitschkos, myself and no doubt some others are referenced on here and the only way he can cleanse himself from his wicked feelings of the flesh is through cyber-flagellation whereby he must make as many vicious and false comments against the Klitschkos, myself, or others as possible. If only he possessed more than a handful of brain cells his cyber-flagellation might actually possess a dose of wit. Unfortunately it does not.




You might actually learn something instead of being convinced by your own circular reasoning all the time.

Lets see all your lists:
Scott9945
RubenSonny
BattlingNelson
mickey malone
Anthony342
IronDanHamza

I'm sure they will all be very interesting, not the least bit like practically ever other list some other 'historian' had made. Maybe one of you actually has an original thought instead of a regurgitation. Fingers crossed.

You can't possibly compare fighters of the past as far as international travel goes. The balance of big fight money has shifted more evenly on a global basis the past couple of decades. Back when most on that list were fighting there were no contenders or money to make it worthwhile to travel so far. Today boxing is thriving in Eastern Europe and seems very strong in the UK. When Ketchel, Greb, and Conn fought there was nothing for them overseas. The US dominated boxing then.

Like I said in my first post on this thread, I don't make lists and usually don't criticize others. Sorry, but I still know that any list that has Kalambay as #6 lacks any credibility. You should really think about retracting that selection.

[IronDanHamza]

You might actually learn something instead of being convinced by your own circular reasoning all the time.

Lets see all your lists:
Scott9945
RubenSonny
BattlingNelson
mickey malone
Anthony342
IronDanHamza

I'm sure they will all be very interesting, not the least bit like practically ever other list some other 'historian' had made. Maybe one of you actually has an original thought instead of a regurgitation. Fingers crossed.

I've given my list in every one of these threads.

To the rest. Comical.

[mickey malone]

Carlos Monzon
Ray Robinson
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones
Harry Greb
**** Tiger
Jake LaMotta
Mickey Walker
Bernard Hopkins
Charley Burley
Holman Willams
Tony Zale
Stanley Ketchell
Al Hostak
Marcel Cerdan
Freddie Steele
James Toney
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
Emile Griffith
Paul Pender
Nino Benvenuti
Les Darcy
Dave Sands

Just a rough and impulsive list.... I'm no expert list maker, so I've not checked every resume in detail, but all of these guys were winners

[Welsh Jon]

Carlos Monzon
Ray Robinson
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones
Harry Greb
**** Tiger
Jake LaMotta
Mickey Walker
Bernard Hopkins
Charley Burley
Holman Willams
Tony Zale
Stanley Ketchell
Al Hostak
Marcel Cerdan
Freddie Steele
James Toney
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
Emile Griffith
Paul Pender
Nino Benvenuti
Les Darcy
Dave Sands

Just a rough and impulsive list.... I'm no expert list maker, so I've not checked every resume in detail, but all of these guys were winners

This list had zero credibility without Kalambay and Pavlik.



(Just messing!)

[Weltschmerz]

Carlos Monzon
Ray Robinson
Marvin Hagler
Roy Jones
Harry Greb
**** Tiger
Jake LaMotta
Mickey Walker
Bernard Hopkins
Charley Burley
Holman Willams
Tony Zale
Stanley Ketchell
Al Hostak
Marcel Cerdan
Freddie Steele
James Toney
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Joey Giardello
Emile Griffith
Paul Pender
Nino Benvenuti
Les Darcy
Dave Sands

Just a rough and impulsive list.... I'm no expert list maker, so I've not checked every resume in detail, but all of these guys were winners

Kudos for being able to list boxrec rankings.