Vitali VS Sonny Liston

[billeau2]

Now now, you don't have a leg to stand on with that one :chuckle9:

sort of like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest?

[billeau2]

Yeah.. Lewis would be starched.. doesn't say much for his punch resistance.. NO ONE STARCHES VITALI KLITSCHKO in a boxing match. Sonny Liston would've been intimidated looking up at Vitali Klitschko & his bully act wouldn't have been a factor with the bigger stronger guy. Vitali Klitschko doesn't have the longest reach for a super heavyweight. Sonny would still have to punch up to reach his jaw despite the longer reach. Liston gets beatdown easy just like any other smaller foe.

Its true!!! just like Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield, and the many other great fighters that have tried to enter the range of the GOAT Vitali! Look what happened to them?!!

Oh wait......Well umm it happened to Eddie Chambers? Chris Byr.....well it almost happened to Byrd!! and even though he rocked Vitali it happened to Sanders!! Point is it would happen to liston because.....because? yes BECAUSE. I just know it would guys....honest!!:

[them_apples]

Liston had a longer reach so that shoots down your theory. Bigger doesn't always mean you punch harder when it comes to heavyweights. Who punched harder, Joe Frazier or Buster Mathis?


Vitali never took any punches from Liston so I don't understand why you would list him as an opponent. Also, you comparing Corrie Sanders to Liston is laugable. Corrie Sanders never beat, let alone KO, a single top 10 contender outside of Wlad. If you think Liston had a bad chin because of the Ali fight, that speaks for itself.

Taller fighters get hit by shorter fighters all the time. Liston would have no problems hitting Vitali. Your reasoning is not only inaccurate but ridiculous.


As I stated, Vitali lost to a past prime Lewis and Chris Byrd. The two best fighters he ever faced. He has nothing on his resume to suggest he beats Liston. Absolutely nothing.

youve been stomping this thread with logic, I commend you. I laughed pretty hard at the "being heavier gives you more power".

[joseph5620]

Muhammad Ali is Superman, then. So if you fight Ali twice--after Ali almost got knocked out--it's okay to quit with a shoulder injury far less severe than Vit's (Vitali didn't need an "out" in his fight like Liston) and get knocked out in one round. Ali is Superman, so he could've knocked out anyone in one round with one punch. He just chose not to with everyone except Liston. This too, explains why Liston was intimidated by Ali but wouldn't be by Vitali.

Nice diversionary tactics. Nothing you said here is relevant to what I posted which is typical when you have no rebuttal.



Ali was the first fighter to knock down Chuck Wepner who had faced Liston and Foreman. The only fighter to stop Oscar Bonavena who fought Frazier twice. Does that mean Ali punched harder? No because he didn't punch as hard as any of them. Does it mean they chose this route because they were fighting Ali? With your ridiculous logic, yes.

The point is, getting knocked out by Ali is not the embarrassment you are trying to portray for your convenience.


Also Sonny Liston was diagnosed by eight doctors with a torn shoulder tendon. Not "serious" when you hold one boxer to different standards with Vitali quitting.

[joseph5620]

youve been stomping this thread with logic, I commend you. I laughed pretty hard at the "being heavier gives you more power".

Thanks. I'm trying lol

[them_apples]

also, for those knocking Listons chin, in his prime he walked through massive punchers like Cleveland Williams and also was not koed by Ali in the first fight but rather quit on his stool from accumulation.

Another thing people forget is Ali was 29-0 with 23 ko's before his retirement. He was a puncher in every sense of the word.

[Humean]

You truly are hopeless. I don't think you even take the time to read what you are responding to. You seem to want to be contrary and dense at the expense of all reason.

I would just like to ask anyone else who posts: Is it quite clear the concept of an athletic endevour where more weight past a certain point is not an advantage? or am I acting like a little *****? Is the example of more muscle not making someone a better marathon runner not a way of illustrating that even though a bigger stronger person should be able to equal the work of a smaller person....It IN FACT does not?

Is it not clearly enunciated in posts that boxing may be an athletic endevour where at a certain point more strength and size may not be an advantage? and did I ever say that Humean said a larger man would beat a smaller man?

I pointed out that boxing has changed and that the weight a fighter comes in at may be a result of those changes more than the natural size of a fighter...and MAny have told you that given hydration, weight in dates, etc that what a fighter's weight, during the weight in, may not even be an accurate weight. George Foreman and Vitalie Klitschko were both big. They probably walked, walk around at a similar weight... believe it or not. Somewhere down that line of reasoning I asked you to consider "usable" strength...like reach, as opposed to what a fighter weights at the weigh in.

You have made no argument to support that given an equal position the bigger man would win....but you do realize you have just contradicted yourself? :blow: Ill let you figure it out mr: nowhere did I say a bigger man would_____.

Again why are you putting words in m mouth about glove size? DID you READ the POST? I was talking about the need for fighters to fight cautiously because of less protection.

And if you think Vitali moved like Liston that is really funny, it once again demonstrates ignorance....watch a few fights one of these days, you can see the Liston vs Cleveland Williams fight for example and you can see how nice both guys move compared to Vitali, but alas this is your opinion and y beef with you is that you do not seem to read the posts you are responding to, I can respect your opinion.

1: Thanks for the psychologizing, most informative.

2: It is not always easy to understand what you write because it is often pretty incoherent.

3: The weight and size issue is a question of strength, increased weight to put through a punch, increased capacity to take a punch, more weight to simply lean on their opponent to tire them out. Surely these things give a fighter an advantage?

4: The weigh in and hydration has little or no significance for the heavyweight division.

5: There has been an increase in height also, not just fight weight. You chastized me for not reading your post but I clearly mentioned the increase in height on at least one occasion.

6: Vitali Klitschko is 6'7" and Foreman 6'3" or 6'4"

7: I did not contradict myself, to say 'there is reason to believe that if their respective skillsets are broadly similar then the bigger man will win' does not mean the same as 'smaller and lighter man cannot beat a bigger and heavier man'. So where is the contradiction or can you not understand the difference?

8: I have watched the film of Sonny Liston and I stand by what I said about him not really moving much better than Vitali Klitschko.

[Cardinal Buck]

Nice diversionary tactics. Nothing you said here is relevant to what I posted which is typical when you have no rebuttal.



Ali was the first fighter to knock down Chuck Wepner who had faced Liston and Foreman. The only fighter to stop Oscar Bonavena who fought Frazier twice. Does that mean Ali punched harder? No because he didn't punch as hard as any of them. Does it mean they chose this route because they were fighting Ali? With your ridiculous logic, yes.

The point is, getting knocked out by Ali is not the embarrassment you are trying to portray for your convenience.


Also Sonny Liston was diagnosed by eight doctors with a torn shoulder tendon. Not "serious" when you hold one boxer to different standards with Vitali quitting.

You are the one who started diverting with that weird ass response to whatever I wrote earlier. Ali almost always stopped fighters from accumulation. He was nothing close to a one punch knockout artist. And Vitali's injury was much worse. He ripped his rotator cuff and probably would've been finished or recovering for years had he not had surgery.

It's irrelevant though. You're trying to discredit Vitali based on the only two fights he lost--neither of which were poor performances. He would beat Liston because he throws more and would dictate the distance.

[Humean]

I'm sure at some point somebody did a side by side with Vitali and the Statue of Liberty and decided that Vitali was mobile. Well yes, compared to fixed objects set in concrete Vitali IS mobile :chuckle9:

haha your witticisms are riotous.

[joseph5620]

You are the one who started diverting with that weird ass response to whatever I wrote earlier. Ali almost always stopped fighters from accumulation. He was nothing close to a one punch knockout artist. And Vitali's injury was much worse. He ripped his rotator cuff and probably would've been finished or recovering for years had he not had surgery.

It's irrelevant though. You're trying to discredit Vitali based on the only two fights he lost--neither of which were poor performances. He would beat Liston because he throws more and would dictate the distance.

Again the point went over your head. You obviously have a ridiculous theory that because a fighter is not normally a one punch KO artist they shouldn't be able to ever achieve this. If they do that somehow means the knockout victim is a glass jaw fraud judging by your implications.

Nunn and Pernell Whitaker knocked out top fighters with one punch. Those fighters they knocked out had sturdy chins.If that concept is still foreign to you, nothing else needs to be said.

Your belief that Liston would be intimidated by Vitali Klitschko is laughable. Not even light hitting Chris Bryd ( on seven days notice)was intimidated by Vitali Klitschko, but Liston would be in your mind lol.

Vitali is not is good as Liston was, will never be ranked as high by anybody credible, and nothing on his resume says otherwise. You'll have to deal with that.