Greatest knockout puncher ever

[butterfly1964]

**** the things you come out with can be plain ******. Marciano got dropped by good punches at got straight up. Ali was dropped by cooper and banks BEFORE his physical peak. You nuthug Ali on things you shouldn't, then discredit him on his best qualities. If ANYTHING you should be giving him credit for having the best Jaw in Heavyweight history on par with Larry Holmes, and you will have a hard time finding a sportswriter, or boxing historian... even those who hate Ali... that would say he has a **** Jaw.

i didn't say marciano had a bad chin. i just said he had an overrated chin, cause some people say he had the best chin in boxing history. and ali doesn't have a better chin than frazier. sure copper dropped him when he wasn't in his prime, but i doubt a 188lb. man like cooper could drop frazier, even when frazier just started boxing. remember ali got dropped by cooper and banks at the start of his career. frazier got dropped by oscar bonavena at the start of his career. who would you rather get dropped by?

[Heckler]

i didn't say marciano had a bad chin. i just said he had an overrated chin, cause some people say he had the best chin in boxing history. and ali doesn't have a better chin than frazier. sure copper dropped him when he wasn't in his prime, but i doubt a 188lb. man like cooper could drop frazier, even when frazier just started boxing. remember ali got dropped by cooper and banks at the start of his career. frazier got dropped by oscar bonavena at the start of his career. who would you rather get dropped by?

Dude, people do not peak physically at the same time. CLAY getting dropped at the start of his career is irrelevant completely, for his physical makeup was different in 66-67, you can see before his layoff he had become larger and had significantly better punching power. Frazier had a good chin, but the best? youve lost it dude. Frazier was wobbled multiple times by Ali in Manila. Ali was hit by Frazier in his own words 'i hit him with shots that would of brought the walls of a city down' and he was right. Ali wasn't as powerful as you like to make out sometimes, but he definately had a great chin if not the greatest. Getting up from possibly the greatest left hook ever seen? he got hit by some huge shots by Foreman, going with Shavers, Lyle etc. I really dont know HOW you come to these ridiculous conclusions.

[Heckler]

And why are you always bring weight into it. It plays a big part but ****, its not everything. Jack dempsey was what 180-190? he brought down 6'7 200 pound willard like he was nothing... with sheer power. Cooper throught a beautiful right that caught Ali as he was moving into it.

[butterfly1964]

And why are you always bring weight into it. It plays a big part but ****, its not everything. Jack dempsey was what 180-190? he brought down 6'7 200 pound willard like he was nothing... with sheer power. Cooper throught a beautiful right that caught Ali as he was moving into it.

dempsey was about 195 and willard was 245.

and if cooper punched that hard, then he would be more well known than he is.

and the frazier knockdown of ali was overrated, it came mostly cause ali was exhausted after 15 rounds of fighting.

[Kid Achilles]

Ali had a much better chin than Frazier. Getting up from a lot of knockdowns does not mean you have a great chin, it means you have good recuperative power and that you have a lot of heart (Ali also had both in addition to his chin). Chin means how well you can absorb a hard shot without it's effects showing. Ali caught a lot of hard shots from Foreman and Shavers without being visibly rocked while Frazier was staggered by lesser hitters like Ron Stander and nearly had his career derailed by Oscar Bonavena.

For the record I'd rather take Bonavena's best than get hit by Cooper's bread and butter punch, the left hook. Bonavena was heavy-handed and an exceptionally strong guy but Cooper was a more accurate, more explosive knockout puncher (with the left hand) and put his whole bodyweight behind his hook.

[Heckler]

dempsey was about 195 and willard was 245.

and if cooper punched that hard, then he would be more well known than he is.

and the frazier knockdown of ali was overrated, it came mostly cause ali was exhausted after 15 rounds of fighting.

What so punching hard makes you a great boxer? **** using that logic earnie shavers is the greatest boxer of all time?... Cooper wasn't the HARDEST hitter but he was powerful, and it was a beautifully timed hook that CLAY walked into... its irrelevant when analyzing Ali's jaw. The punch Frazier threw was not primarily a result of exhaustion. It is dubbed by boxing historians as one of the greatest left hooks ever landed. It was beautifully timed, thrown with immense power and technique, if you cant see how good a punch that is theres something wrong with you. And Jack Dempsey was about 187 pounds.

[Oasis_Lad]

Ali had a much better chin than Frazier. Getting up from a lot of knockdowns does not mean you have a great chin, it means you have good recuperative power and that you have a lot of heart (Ali also had both in addition to his chin). Chin means how well you can absorb a hard shot without it's effects showing. Ali caught a lot of hard shots from Foreman and Shavers without being visibly rocked while Frazier was staggered by lesser hitters like Ron Stander and nearly had his career derailed by Oscar Bonavena.

For the record I'd rather take Bonavena's best than get hit by Cooper's bread and butter punch, the left hook. Bonavena was heavy-handed and an exceptionally strong guy but Cooper was a more accurate, more explosive knockout puncher (with the left hand) and put his whole bodyweight behind his hook.

agree 100% with this

[butterfly1964]

What so punching hard makes you a great boxer? **** using that logic earnie shavers is the greatest boxer of all time?... Cooper wasn't the HARDEST hitter but he was powerful, and it was a beautifully timed hook that CLAY walked into... its irrelevant when analyzing Ali's jaw. The punch Frazier threw was not primarily a result of exhaustion. It is dubbed by boxing historians as one of the greatest left hooks ever landed. It was beautifully timed, thrown with immense power and technique, if you cant see how good a punch that is theres something wrong with you. And Jack Dempsey was about 187 pounds.

i'm not saying that more power makes you a better boxer, but if he was as powerful as you say, then when people mention heavy hitters and such, henry cooper would come to mind as well, wouldn't he? and again, the punch frazier floored ali with was not that powerful, frazier hit him with harder shots in that fight, ali said it, and frazier said it. ali said that he was tired and the next big shot that hit him he would have went down. frazier said it was a pretty good shot, but, "i hit him with better punches than that on that night." (i don't know if thats exactly how he quoted it, but it was something to that effect.) and i would rather believe the person who felt the punch (ali) and the person who threw the punch (frazier) than you who just listened to biased boxing historians on the web and on t.v.

[Yogi]

and if cooper punched that hard, then he would be more well known than he is.

He is very well known, Butterfly, and I venture to say that he's probably one of the better known Heavyweights of that era...Very popular on British soils (how many fighters are granted knighthood?), and was certainly one of the biggest draws in all of boxing during that time period of the 60's.

And in his left hook, Cooper probably had one of the better punches in the Heavyweight division at that time. He threw it by the book and with quickness, therefore he was able to generate some very good power out of it...In addition to dropping Ali with it, Sir Henry also nearly killed poor Joe Erskine with that punch, as a left hook left Erskine hanging grotesquely on the bottom rope. I'm not saying Cooper is one of the elite punchers in history because he's not...but he certainly hit hard enough that if caught somebody with that punch he's, more often than not, going to hurt them with it.

[butterfly1964]

He is very well known, Butterfly, and I venture to say that he's probably one of the better known Heavyweights of that era...Very popular on British soils (how many fighters are granted knighthood?), and was certainly one of the biggest draws in all of boxing during that time period of the 60's.

And in his left hook, Cooper probably had one of the better punches in the Heavyweight division at that time. He threw it by the book and with quickness, therefore he was able to generate some very good power out of it...In addition to dropping Ali with it, Sir Henry also nearly killed poor Joe Erskine with that punch, as a left hook left Erskine hanging grotesquely on the bottom rope. I'm not saying Cooper is one of the elite punchers in history because he's not...but he certainly hit hard enough that if caught somebody with that punch he's, more often than not, going to hurt them with it.

once again, you've amazed me with your boxing knowledge! well done!