Jones vs Brannon

[Sugar Adam Ali]

It is a shame those big fights were never made against collins eubanks benn g-man but boxing was a business for roy,he controlled his company if one of them was a mandatory or availible for a vacant belt when he was coming up he would have took it he never it seems went calling out to benn collins or eubank he didnt have to.I wont argue he didnt cherry pick he most certainly did at the same time he fought alot of mandatory challengers roy i believe chose a few low risk ok pay fights over high risk ok pay fights its not like al haymon and golden boy were around for him roy was tryna pull numbers on his own based of his olympic fame and ability to dazzle in the ring.He most certainly would of benefited financially from having a proper promoter but its a case of high risk low reward when your doing things on your own and at the same time your calling the shots for another fighter whos under someone elses promotional banner them deals dont go smooth.It seems we all agree he beats benn eubank collins at his peak he KOs all of them so theres other reasons surely it cant be hes ducking them! hopkins jones 2 didnt happen because b-hop wasnt liking the money split others may have felt the same.Me personally i believe the g-man fight would have happened eventually it would have been nearly unavoidable for both because they were both american and both would have been world champion elite in the same weight classes unfortunitely god had other plans.I wish roy had the cajones to go to england and fight benn after he won against g-man that would of stood for alot.You cant knock a pro fighter who started at 154lbs and wins a heavyweight world title,MW SMW were roys natural weight anything above should be considered high risk anything below EASY WORK.Reading some of the posts its like if roy fought these guys he would be the goat with like 250mil in his bank account regardless hes considered an ATG by THE experts and writers Benn Collins Eubank are not as for Gerald Mclellen he should have been one of the greats.

Good post

I just think that with roy's ability and likability with the fans, he should have been a much bigger star,,
He should have been on the level of SRL, tyson, de la hoya, holyfield, floyd, manny etc
But he never achieved mega superstardom, because once he made it big with the toney win, he never challenged himself till a decade later vs ruiz.
Yes he has some good solid wins, but nothing jaw dropping,, I dont expect him to fight every fighter that was around,, had he fought eubanks and michlewski that would have been fine,, Or G-man in 93 and maybe collins in 97,,
He had so many golden opportunities to ascend to the top of the superstar ranks.
Just look at oscar, he was a big draw and from 96 to the day he retired he gave us a mega fight every year except in 05 when he sat out the year and was inactive.
Can you imagine if oscar never fought tito, shane, vargas, ike, hopkins, floyd, manny and his best wins were old chavez and pernell and then just took the HBO guarantee and fought on regular HBO vs the likes of carpentier, campos, etc. That is basically what roy did,, he took the guarnanteed easy money from HBO and never looked to make ppv events because he was getting good money just by beating b-level fighters on regular HBO..
Once his contract was up then you started seeing him take all the risks and try to make ppv caliber fights, but it was too little too late, as roy was in decline and past prime by the time he took the fights we all wanted to see ie tarver, calzaghe, hopkins rematch, tito

And its really a shame, because roy just wasnt a good fighter, he was a once in a lifetime type talent that has never been seen before or after him

[Scott9945]

thanks for the support,, he also thought tony bellew was a future p4p guy

You have got to be kidding

[FightFit]

Good post

I just think that with roy's ability and likability with the fans, he should have been a much bigger star,,
He should have been on the level of SRL, tyson, de la hoya, holyfield, floyd, manny etc
But he never achieved mega superstardom, because once he made it big with the toney win, he never challenged himself till a decade later vs ruiz.
Yes he has some good solid wins, but nothing jaw dropping,, I dont expect him to fight every fighter that was around,, had he fought eubanks and michlewski that would have been fine,, Or G-man in 93 and maybe collins in 97,,
He had so many golden opportunities to ascend to the top of the superstar ranks.
Just look at oscar, he was a big draw and from 96 to the day he retired he gave us a mega fight every year except in 05 when he sat out the year and was inactive.
Can you imagine if oscar never fought tito, shane, vargas, ike, hopkins, floyd, manny and his best wins were old chavez and pernell and then just took the HBO guarantee and fought on regular HBO vs the likes of carpentier, campos, etc. That is basically what roy did,, he took the guarnanteed easy money from HBO and never looked to make ppv events because he was getting good money just by beating b-level fighters on regular HBO..
Once his contract was up then you started seeing him take all the risks and try to make ppv caliber fights, but it was too little too late, as roy was in decline and past prime by the time he took the fights we all wanted to see ie tarver, calzaghe, hopkins rematch, tito

And its really a shame, because roy just wasnt a good fighter, he was a once in a lifetime type talent that has never been seen before or after him

Excellent reply.
I agree with you totally, i was a teenager mid 90s with no clue about boxing promotion or the money factor i just saw guys that made my jaw drop,now though i understand and you made a great point too little too late,thats very true and its a strange one because roys skills ability are superstardom weather you look back or forward he was a once in a lifetime fighter but in all honesty the resume may not be for some,roy i dont think ever benefited from the media the way Oscar the golden boy did,and floyd and manny have benefited from the media and world wide web more than anyone they promote in another world compared to roy different era you could say floyd made 50mil plus for beating what was supposed to be his most dangerous opponent history will state it was easy roy did the same made dangerous look easy but no 50mil lol for me personally sugar boy malinga hopkins toney hill ruiz were his biggest wins his ability i feel for some reason surpasses everyone well almost,if we look at tyson for example the guy got top promotion which went threw the roof with don king world exposure and the ability to destroy everyone but!! his resume isnt if im honest that great Holyfield Lewis thats his hardest but the guy gets superstardom and 200mil plus.Oscar lost to tito his fault!! lost to shane twice KO`d by hopkins lost to floyd split,destroyed by manny roy lost to griffin his fault!! lost to tarver twice 1 by ko lost to johnson ko calzaghe lost hopkins lost i mean these losses came when he was past it except the DQ ofcourse but my point is these fights are at lightheavy there high risk for him we shouldnt overlook his opponents MCcallum was 49-3-1 yeah past his best but hey,Castro 70-3-2 Pazienza 40-5-0 Gonzalez 27-0-0 Kelly 28-0-1 Woods 32-1-0 Trinidad 42-2-0 Grant 31-1-1 Del Valle 27-1-0 southpaw Tate 29-2-0 i feel roy jones has himself to blame not getting the mega superstardom he deserves but i also feel its not because of his resume its the promotion side he failed could you imagine roy jones jr in todays world a prime roy jones with a powerful manager adviser like al haymon and a company called Golden Boy behind him its scary to think what his marketing ability would be like in todays boxing world, look at the benefits in marketing canelo has then look at his business partners then look at roy.Thanks for the reply sugar you have a good insight i enjoyed reading your post.

[FightFit]

You have got to be kidding

Loving the asian sig i bet she makes special chicken and noodles stunning

[robertzimmerman]

hahahahahahaahahahaha

I remember this fight only for the fact that during the prefight presser, roy got grilled by reporters as to why he was fighting this novice instead of champion frankie liles, roy's amateur nemesis

Roy is the all time career cherrypicker,, floyd has nothing on roy jones

If you would like a proper debate, you can have one. But from reading your posts, it doesn't seem that you're being fair and objective.

Roy wasn't the cherry picker that you and lots of others make him out to be. Boxing is a business, and there's lots of politics involved. To my knowledge he only ducked/dismissed two fighters. They were Nunn and Collins.

He relinquished his WBC strap at 175, when Nunn was mandatory. But he did that in the hope of fighting at HW. He talked to Holyfield about a potential fight, but he wasn't interested. So Roy signed to fight Buster Douglas. But Roy's Father blocked it at the last minute.

Collins was dismissed to move up to 175. Then nearly three years later, Collins came out retirement to challenge Roy, after Roy had beaten Ricky Frazier. (The Cop, who somehow became a mandatory) Collins actually got in the ring during Roy's post fight interview. But DeBella and HBO didn't want to make the fight. They wanted Roy to instead fight a unification fight against Reggie Johnson. They wanted Collins to fight Joe Calzaghe, with the winner potentially fighting Roy if he won. But Collins got injured in training and had to retire.

At 160, Roy missed the opportunity to fight great fights because his Father wrapped him in cotton wool. He was having Roy fight nobodies for peanuts and wouldn't unleash him. Roy's career only took off when he split with his Father in 1992, and signed a deal with HBO. While Toney, McCallum, Nunn, Jackson and Gerald McClellan were all facing each other, Roy had been fighting the likes of Lester Yardbrough. By the time he'd beaten Hopkins, he was looking for big fights, and was outgrowing the division at 24 going on 25.

At 168, fights with Benn and Liles were very hard to make. Because according to Roy, Greg Fritz, and the Levin Brothers who handled Roy, King wanted future options on Roy. King didn't like Stanley Levin, and Levin wouldn't deal with him. So Roy relinquished the IBF title to go to 175.

Eubank is also on record as saying that he never chased the big fights at 168, and he was content to defend his WBO belt against mandatory challengers. He was content to fight on his ITV and Sky contracts. He also recently said in an interview, that it would have been suicide fighting Roy in his prime.

At 175, the only guy he missed was Dariusz M. That fight became impossible to make. Roy refused to fight in Germany, and Dariusz and his promoter didn't seem interested in fighting in the U.S. Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with HBOs' Kerry Davis, but nothing could be arranged. Davis came up with the idea of Dariusz fighting on a double header with Roy in the U.S. but it was turned down flat. From that point on, talks just fizzled out.

After beating Julio Gonzalez, Roy again spoke to Evander Holyfield late in 2001, just prior to his final fight against Ruiz. They spoke of a potential fight for 2002, if Evander won back the belt. But the fight was a draw, so Roy pulled out of negotiations and remained at 175 for a little longer.

After Roy had fought Glen Kelly on a double bill with Hopkins, there was talk of them having a rematch at a catchweight. I'm sure you've seen the famous argument on HBO? Hopkins incredibly wanted more money at the start of the interview, but later backed down and wanted 50/50. But Roy had already beaten him, he'd got one eye on moving up to HW, and he'd have had to have moved down in weight for the fight. So there was no way that Roy was going to accept a 50/50 split. He then fought Clinton Woods in his final mandatory at 175. HBO had wanted Roy to cancel the Woods fight, to instead fight Jirov at CW. But they were only prepared to pay Roy an additional $500,000 on top of what he was getting for Woods. So Roy turned it down. He then beat Woods, and got the opportunity to fight Ruiz.

So again, Roy wasn't the cherry picker that he's made out to be.

If circumstances had been different, he could have fought Benn, Liles, Dariusz, a rematch with Hopkins and Evander Holyfield.

Everything I've mentioned can be backed up. It's all factual.

He wasn't content to just fight easy mandatories. If he had've done, he'd never have fought Ruiz at 34, after 50 fights, and then came back for Tarver.

[robertzimmerman]

yeah i know,, couldnt agree more,,, the dude was shot beyond belief and thats when he decides calzaghe, hopkins, go overseas, etc

its a damn shame, because had roy fought G-man, benn, eubanks, collins, liles, nunn, michlewski and he probably would have beaten them all, Roy would be a lock for top 20 ATG maybe even top 10,, he had the talent, just not the resume

Again, it wasn't that simple.

He didn't get the opportunity to just go out and fight all of those guys.

It's not that simple when there's rival networks and promoters etc involved.

[robertzimmerman]

yeah, but mayweather took alot more challenges in his career,, just look at all the ppv fights floyd had compared to the 2 that roy had with toney and ruiz, and they were about a decade apart,,

roy really has only hopkins, toney, ruiz on his ledger, and i guess tarver 1,, floyd has cherrypicked alot but he has also taken the big fights vs oscar, hatton, cotto, canelo, corrales etc

roy was more content in beating mediocre fighters on regular HBO for guarnateed money, instead of trying to land big event type fights like floyd has had with hatton, oscar, etc

Roy signed to fight an undefeated, 26 year old James Toney, who was considered one of the best fighters on the planet in 1994. We all know of his weight troubles, but Roy moved up from 160 to challenge him.

Floyd has never beaten an ATG while in their prime. He's had great fights, against great fighters, but not while they were peak. Apart from Toney, you could say the same about Roy's opposition, but it's just circumstances.

Roy also started out at 154, and fought Ruiz, at 34, after 50 fights. That was a challenge. Tarver was also a huge challenge, at that stage of his career, when he had to drop from 196 down to 175.

Now Floyd has had more PPV fights.

But how many of them were great challenges? His biggest fight was against Oscar, who'd only fought twice in three years, and then who looked like **** against Forbes and Manny the year after, before retiring. Hatton wasn't good enough to be considered a big challenge. Cotto in my opinion, was never the same after Marg. I give Floyd lots of credit for taking on Canelo, but the catchweight wasn't necessary.

As mentioned in my other post, Roy did want bigger fights against the likes of Dariusz, Hopkins II and Holyfield etc. He wasn't just content to face bums.

Roy also wanted Tyson in 2004, but various things stopped the fight from taking place.

So Floyd didn't challenge himself more than what Roy did.

[robertzimmerman]

Good post

I just think that with roy's ability and likability with the fans, he should have been a much bigger star,,
He should have been on the level of SRL, tyson, de la hoya, holyfield, floyd, manny etc
But he never achieved mega superstardom, because once he made it big with the toney win, he never challenged himself till a decade later vs ruiz.
Yes he has some good solid wins, but nothing jaw dropping,, I dont expect him to fight every fighter that was around,, had he fought eubanks and michlewski that would have been fine,, Or G-man in 93 and maybe collins in 97,,
He had so many golden opportunities to ascend to the top of the superstar ranks.
Just look at oscar, he was a big draw and from 96 to the day he retired he gave us a mega fight every year except in 05 when he sat out the year and was inactive.
Can you imagine if oscar never fought tito, shane, vargas, ike, hopkins, floyd, manny and his best wins were old chavez and pernell and then just took the HBO guarantee and fought on regular HBO vs the likes of carpentier, campos, etc. That is basically what roy did,, he took the guarnanteed easy money from HBO and never looked to make ppv events because he was getting good money just by beating b-level fighters on regular HBO..
Once his contract was up then you started seeing him take all the risks and try to make ppv caliber fights, but it was too little too late, as roy was in decline and past prime by the time he took the fights we all wanted to see ie tarver, calzaghe, hopkins rematch, tito

And its really a shame, because roy just wasnt a good fighter, he was a once in a lifetime type talent that has never been seen before or after him

What were these golden opportunities?

[robertzimmerman]

Sugar Adam Ali,

Really,, name all the great fights roy fought from 93-03

hopkins- who in hindsight was a great win but at the time, hopkins was jsut a USBA champ and not considered a huge threat

toney- Great win

Ruiz in 03- great win

Tarver in 03- Great win

Hopkins didn't lose for another 12 years, and Roy was only 24, with an injured hand.

The other three wins that you've mentioned, are better than most fighters top wins of the same era, all things considered.

Now please inform us all with your great wisdom, who roy fought,, what top level guys..

Was it the great vinny paz,

or mayber the legendary bryant brannon, and eric lucas

maybe rick frazier, lou del valle, the p4p champ richard hall

maybe it was an ancient 42 year old jr mid champ at lhw mccallum

or how about the over the hill virgil hill who had already been beaten by hearns and michlewski,,,

Once it flash in the pan montell griffin

How about the fab gonzalez

Or the ATG clinton woods,,

Thomas Tate was a good, capable fighter, who Roy iced in under 5 mins with a left hook.

Thulani 'Sugar Boy' Malinga was a good fighter, who had given Benn and Eubank very close fights, and then went on to beat Reid and Benn in a rematch. Roy beat him easily and stopped him.

Lou Del Valle was a good fighter.

Virgil Hill was past his best, but was still a top level guy. He'd beaten Maske before he lost to DM, and then he went on to knock out Fabrice Tiozzo in a round. Roy was the only person to ever knockout Hill in 57 fights, with a crushing body shot in the 4th round, and Hill ended his career at CW. That was a great win.

Reggie Johnson was slightly past his best, but Roy beat him with absolute ease, and then Reggie went onto give Tarver a great fight in 2002.

Montell Griffin was also a good fighter, who was iced in a round with a lead uppercut.

Woods and Gonzalez weren't GREAT, but they were capable fighters, who Roy toyed with. Woods went on to give Glen Johnson three great fights, and Gonzalez went on to beat Dariusz M. Dariusz may have been past his best, but Gonzalez must have been capable to have beaten him.

It wasn't just who Roy fought, it's the manner in which he beat most of them.

How many PPV events did roy headline like floyd has done

Please name the great big fights that roy was apart of....

Roy didn't headline many PPV events, but they peaked in different era's. Roy was never a star in Britain in the 90's, like how Floyd is. Times have changed. Floyd's coming out party was against De La Hoya in 2007. Since then, he's had huge PPV events. But just because Floyd is a PPV star, it doesn't mean he took huge challenges and had better wins.

Remember the epic clash with G-man,, or the awesome wars with eubanks, colllins and benn,, or when he beat his amateur nemisis frank liles in a unification fight at 168,, or when roy outboxed micheal nunn,,
Or when roy whooped michlewski..

Do you remember all those great fights,, oh yeah never happened,,,

Remember Floyd's great fights against Manny Pac, and a younger Oscar and Mosley? How about his epic fights with Paul Williams etc? I too can be sarcastic.

So please tell me what great fights roy was involved in between toney and ruiz,,,

Please tell me the huge event type fights that are on par with floyd vs hatton, oscar, cotto, canelo, etc

How do you define a great fight? PPV numbers? The threat of the challenge? The excitement of the fights? The manner in which they won?

Roy didn't have huge, exciting fights. But he beat some very good fighters, with ease, as mentioned previously.

Hatton was a big fight, because of the U.K. interest, and because he'd gone to America, and impressed with his style and his personality. In terms of interest and numbers it was big. But Hatton wasn't a great fighter. (no disrespect intended, I was a fan of his)

Oscar was a huge fight. But again, Oscar was at the end of his career, he'd been inactive, and he retired the following year.

Cotto was huge, but how good was he at that point?

Canelo was a huge fight, and I respect Floyd for taking it. But again, it's just circumstances.


Floyd had much bigger fights in terms of interest. But I wouldn't say he had bigger fights, as in he fought better quality fighters than Roy.

Please list all of roys big fight from toney to ruiz that were big headline ppv events,,,

Again, he didn't have as many PPV events.

But Floyd is fighting in a different era, and he receives more exposure, with his persona, and fighting in the WWE etc. Again, it's just circumstances. For example, Floyd recently got paid a reported $32m for fighting Robert Guerrero, whereas Roy was being paid around $5m to fight guys of that caliber. Times have changed. You can't do like for like comparisons. But if you analyze both guys, taking a variety of things into consideration, then you'll see that they've both had great careers and neither fighter is way ahead of the other.

[FightFit]

Sugar Adam Ali,



Hopkins didn't lose for another 12 years, and Roy was only 24, with an injured hand.

The other three wins that you've mentioned, are better than most fighters top wins of the same era, all things considered.



Thomas Tate was a good, capable fighter, who Roy iced in under 5 mins with a left hook.

Thulani 'Sugar Boy' Malinga was a good fighter, who had given Benn and Eubank very close fights, and then went on to beat Reid and Benn in a rematch. Roy beat him easily and stopped him.

Lou Del Valle was a good fighter.

Virgil Hill was past his best, but was still a top level guy. He'd beaten Maske before he lost to DM, and then he went on to knock out Fabrice Tiozzo in a round. Roy was the only person to ever knockout Hill in 57 fights, with a crushing body shot in the 4th round, and Hill ended his career at CW. That was a great win.

Reggie Johnson was slightly past his best, but Roy beat him with absolute ease, and then Reggie went onto give Tarver a great fight in 2002.

Montell Griffin was also a good fighter, who was iced in a round with a lead uppercut.

Woods and Gonzalez weren't GREAT, but they were capable fighters, who Roy toyed with. Woods went on to give Glen Johnson three great fights, and Gonzalez went on to beat Dariusz M. Dariusz may have been past his best, but Gonzalez must have been capable to have beaten him.

It wasn't just who Roy fought, it's the manner in which he beat most of them.



Roy didn't headline many PPV events, but they peaked in different era's. Roy was never a star in Britain in the 90's, like how Floyd is. Times have changed. Floyd's coming out party was against De La Hoya in 2007. Since then, he's had huge PPV events. But just because Floyd is a PPV star, it doesn't mean he took huge challenges and had better wins.



Remember Floyd's great fights against Manny Pac, and a younger Oscar and Mosley? How about his epic fights with Paul Williams etc? I too can be sarcastic.



How do you define a great fight? PPV numbers? The threat of the challenge? The excitement of the fights? The manner in which they won?

Roy didn't have huge, exciting fights. But he beat some very good fighters, with ease, as mentioned previously.

Hatton was a big fight, because of the U.K. interest, and because he'd gone to America, and impressed with his style and his personality. In terms of interest and numbers it was big. But Hatton wasn't a great fighter. (no disrespect intended, I was a fan of his)

Oscar was a huge fight. But again, Oscar was at the end of his career, he'd been inactive, and he retired the following year.

Cotto was huge, but how good was he at that point?

Canelo was a huge fight, and I respect Floyd for taking it. But again, it's just circumstances.


Floyd had much bigger fights in terms of interest. But I wouldn't say he had bigger fights, as in he fought better quality fighters than Roy.



Again, he didn't have as many PPV events.

But Floyd is fighting in a different era, and he receives more exposure, with his persona, and fighting in the WWE etc. Again, it's just circumstances. For example, Floyd recently got paid a reported $32m for fighting Robert Guerrero, whereas Roy was being paid around $5m to fight guys of that caliber. Times have changed. You can't do like for like comparisons. But if you analyze both guys, taking a variety of things into consideration, then you'll see that they've both had great careers and neither fighter is way ahead of the other.

Excellent posts really good insight this is a great informal conversation can i ask you and also anyone else who may have an answer for me why is it in nearly all roy jones fights somebody`s shouting EDWARD EDWARD its baffled me for years i dont think its coincidence.Maybe edward was a camera man i`ve no idea.