Prime Muhammad Ali-Invincible?

[doowopernie]

Ali the Greatest-I don't think so

This is my first post so bear with me. Ali undoubtedly was one of the top three heavyweights of all time,probably number one,but,if you look at him on a pound-for-pound basis there are a few fighters that I think would beat him. Number one would be the greatest of all time, the real Sugar Ray, Sugar Ray Robinson. He made more of an impact inside the ring and,if you factor in the eras he fought in probably had a comparable impact outside the ring. He was dignity personified.

To me Sugar Ray Robinson will always be "The Greatest".


DooWop Ernie

[machotime]

This is my first post so bear with me. Ali undoubtedly was one of the top three heavyweights of all time,probably number one,but,if you look at him on a pound-for-pound basis there are a few fighters that I think would beat him. Number one would be the greatest of all time, the real Sugar Ray, Sugar Ray Robinson. He made more of an impact inside the ring and,if you factor in the eras he fought in probably had a comparable impact outside the ring. He was dignity personified.

To me Sugar Ray Robinson will always be "The Greatest".


DooWop Ernie

I agree with you, but the prime Ali was definately "almost invincible", he had all the tools and talent.

[butterfly1964]

He CLEARY won the fight vs Tillis, even if it was a sd, so what? Tillis was his first real quality opponent and he was unexperienced. I cant believe people judge him on that fight because he didn't KNOCK EM OUT. Boxers also win with points.

Tyson destroyed Tyrell Biggs, the guy who could dance all night. He was nearly as fast as Ali on his feet so what makes you think Ali would have a chance?

biggs is not as fast as ali. just dancing is not enough. ali has trigger-fast head movement, many fighters couldn't hit him with a jab even if he just stood still. also ali has a granite chin, a top all-time chin, so ali is superior to biggs in every way.

[Heckler]

=========i believe no fighter could take out the cleveland williams Ali 3/5 times.==========

** Cleveland Williams was KOed by lots of fighters. Moreover Williams was very damaged goods when Ali fought him. I'm sure you believe in pie in the sky too.

Ali was as close to invincible as any fighter ever. I'd say a peak Tyson exceeds him though, and a peak Dempsey comes close.

**** you always repeat the same ****** ****. Williams was damaged, But HIS JAW was as with any fighter... as good as it ever was. And Ali still performed EXCEEDINGLY well... where did i say williams was at his prime? i merely am pointing out thats Alis best performance in the ring, ever. Take your slanted Ali-hating somewhere else.

[Heckler]

If anyone thinks tyson would come close to stopping Ali they are derranged. He is the only swarmer i wouldn't give the least bit of chance against Ali. Tyson got frustrated, REGARDLESS OF WHEN HE FOUGHT, prime or not with a boxer that merely used the stick and move. Against Ali with such footspeed, angles, the various different manouveres he would use to confuse Tyson... tyson would be frustrated, tyson would stuff up. Someone said that Ali didn't have a good jaw, you are a ****en moron... a man that was never knocked out after fighting frazier, foreman, shavers, Liston etc... and you come up with the most ******ed statement i have ever witnessed on boxing scene.

[Heckler]

Sure he has some good ko's on his record. But how many of those truly displayed power punching?

Foreman himself said that he didn't get knocked out because of his power. He was knocked down because he was cought with the 2 fastest hooks he ever received and he was out of balance. He also said he should've gotten up from that knock down. Something had to do with his corner.

Did you ever think for a second that Foreman might be a bit slanted on this one. In an interview on 'Ali: through the eyes of the world' he said that he tried to get up, and did, but by then the count was over... that was POWER that knocked him out. The punches leading up to it in the previous rounds. When Ali was sitting on the ropes, Foreman would miss and Ali would SIT on his punches... you clearly see Foremans head being snapped back and sweat pouring off his head. When Ali wanted to punch hard, he did.

[Heckler]

Invincible? No. The best? Yes.

A man who weighs 210+ pounds and has really quick, accurate hands will punch hard. That's generally the mechanics of it. His power is not the most underrated in history; it's right in the middle where it should be. He had enough power, and enough gas in the tank to finish off his tired and confused opponents. It was there when it needed to be.

This is not why he defeated many of his opponents, pre-layoff, however. Often times his opponents never changed their gameplan to face a heavyweight who fought like a middleweight. Ali was not so fast that people couldn't catch him; it's rediculous to think that. His opponents just failed to prepare themselves properly to conserve energy while trapping Ali's movement.

There are a few fighters who probably could have done this, but Ali was fortunate enough to avoid such eras. The key is to be at the spot he's dancing to before he gets there. A person can always move faster when going forward than another can while moving backwards or side to side. His opponents rarely caught on to this, however, until after he returned to the ring in 1970.

Ali nuthuggers have to think about something for a moment. In 1967, Ali had reached his physical prime. Automatically people scream that he would have continued as such until about 1971 or so, and remained undefeated. First of all, Ali wasn't even accepted as a quality champion until 1966 or 1967, so there weren't fighters truly gunning for a method to stop a dancer. Had Ali remained in the sport, you would have seen a humbled version of Muhammad Ali between 67-71 as more and more fighters found ways to counter his speed. Would they have beaten him? Not necessarily, but it's a more fair and reasonable assumption than one that makes him invincible. During his layoff people began preparing for ways to tackle fast fighters and it showed when he returned to the ring. Ali wasn't so much slower in 1970 that it allowed for him to get caught where he otherwise would have been uncatchable, but he did lose a step. Combine this with the fact that more people figured out ways to close the gap and you get some frustrating moments for Ali.

This is all a testament to his greatness. The entire boxing world had to find ways to be prepared for a swifter, more patient opponent. In the 1980's there weren't many big names, but there were more boxers who were pure athletes. Faster fighters with more longevity. They beat up on each other enough, however, that very few names from that era emerged. All of this changed because of Muhammad Ali.

Invincible? No. The best? Yes.

I agree with essentially everything bar your commenting on Alis speed. He lost ALOT of footspeed, he couldn't keep it up through the rounds and you clearly see this against jerry quarry where he goes flat footed.

[Heckler]

Sure he has some good ko's on his record. But how many of those truly displayed power punching?

Foreman himself said that he didn't get knocked out because of his power. He was knocked down because he was cought with the 2 fastest hooks he ever received and he was out of balance. He also said he should've gotten up from that knock down. Something had to do with his corner.

Who gives a **** about punching power? is that how meatheaded you are? WINNING is what matters... who gives a **** what Foreman says, any Ali opponent that puts Ali at no 7 is obviously a tad bitter.

[Heckler]

Im no Ali nuthugger. I believe that he could be beaten. But never 3 times out of 5 in 1966-67. Did he really loose that much between then and 1970? remaining inactive for 3 years of your prime DOES take it out of you, and every boxing sportwriter you will ever find that actually SAW ali live will note that Ali lost alot during this period. Ali had flaws, he couldn't block a jab, he never went to the body.... but this was largely offset by his sheer talent and heart. His speed, timing, comprehension of range, Jaw, stamina... and yes to that moron who said that Ali had no stamina... when he TRAINED for a fight he had good Stamina. We have two extremes here, Ali haters that come out with **** like Tyson would beat Ali, or Ali had no stamina, or Ali had a **** jaw... then we have the other extremists like butterfly whom thinks Joe Louis would be beaten easily by Ali, and Joe Louis had a weak jaw. Stop being slanted, get informed and then comment.

[BKM-]

you are aware you just compared tyrell bigges to muhammad ali, right??? ali was not just fast, but he had good power, great reflexes and would mess with your head. mike would lose that fight before he got in the ring. ali wins that fight 99 times out of 100

I wasn't comparing Ali to Tyrell Biggs. I was explaining Butterfly that fast feet and movement in the ring wouldn't be the thing that would defeat Tyson.