Prime Muhammad Ali-Invincible?

[BKM-]

biggs is not as fast as ali. just dancing is not enough. ali has trigger-fast head movement, many fighters couldn't hit him with a jab even if he just stood still. also ali has a granite chin, a top all-time chin, so ali is superior to biggs in every way.

Well, now you see i was right about fast feet with dancing moves in the ring would NOT effect Tyson. Thats what i was explaining.

Ali didn't have any power so no way in ****ing hell would he KO Tyson.

Jabs wouldn't work because Tyson ate jabs against every fighter who used it.

[BKM-]

Did you ever think for a second that Foreman might be a bit slanted on this one. In an interview on 'Ali: through the eyes of the world' he said that he tried to get up, and did, but by then the count was over... that was POWER that knocked him out. The punches leading up to it in the previous rounds. When Ali was sitting on the ropes, Foreman would miss and Ali would SIT on his punches... you clearly see Foremans head being snapped back and sweat pouring off his head. When Ali wanted to punch hard, he did.

I dont think you know better than the man himself. He was exhausted and out of balance when Ali punched him with those combos. It wasn't power, he was basicely trying to stand on his feet but he fell down because he was out of balance.

If anyone thinks tyson would come close to stopping Ali they are derranged. He is the only swarmer i wouldn't give the least bit of chance against Ali. Tyson got frustrated, REGARDLESS OF WHEN HE FOUGHT, prime or not with a boxer that merely used the stick and move. Against Ali with such footspeed, angles, the various different manouveres he would use to confuse Tyson... tyson would be frustrated, tyson would stuff up. Someone said that Ali didn't have a good jaw, you are a ****en moron... a man that was never knocked out after fighting frazier, foreman, shavers, Liston etc... and you come up with the most ******ed statement i have ever witnessed on boxing scene.

Ali in his prime never got tested by a boxer like Tyson or Frazier. Liston wasn't trained and basicely a joke when he fought Ali.

[angelo_dundee]

i think that the pre exile ali was the best boxer in history. the only person who would have a shot??
id say liston, foreman or tyson, simply because of their raw power. that being said, ali wins that fight every time imo

This is sound understanding of this beautiful sport.

[Brassangel]

Ali lost some fluidity when he returned to boxing, not necessarily speed. He was a little less coordinated, and he lost a touch of stamina. It wasn't an overwhelming loss, however. Ali was still the swiftest guy around. The trouble he faced was against volume punchers who applied pressure.

Ali said several times that Patterson was the most skilled opponent he ever faced; Floyd was a Cus Volume Puncher, but he didn't apply great pressure. Instead he would circle with his opponents and use counterpunches more often then attack maneuvers. He got in some decent rounds with Muhammad, but Ali won these fights decisively.

Joe Frazier was a Volume Puncher who applied great pressure. He did have a predictable left hand, and he was almost blind in his right eye. This played well into Ali's hands, as a man who jabbed superbly towards the right eye. Even so, Frazier gave Ali lots of trouble and even puffed him up in all three contests. Muhammad Ali said that had he fought Joe Frazier in 1967, he would have been beaten by him quicker. While he was faster when he was younger, he often got ****y and tried to fire back against his (seemingly) weaker opponents. Joe would have annihilated him in this event, and Ali recognizes that. You can't deny what the man said himself.

Now take Mike Tyson. Iron Mike was a volume puncher who hit harder than either Patterson or Frazier, applied pressure better than both, had great vision in both eyes, and had quicker footspeed and hand speed than either of them. Furthermore, Mike Tyson could cut the ring off better than anyone in the history of the sport. For those who use the, "..he always got frustrated against quick moving, tall fighters..." need to spend less time watching the HBO special or listening to that moron, Sugars. Before his prison sentence, he still won convincingly against opponents where he was seemingly frustrated. (NOTE He didn't suffer frustration against Douglas; rather it was a combination of partying, poor training, poor cornermen, poor management, etc.)

Case and point: Tyson would give Ali trouble. He would probably scar him up or even knock him down. Ali kept fighting even if he was out on his feet, so I doubt there would be a KO. Tyson's chin was pretty strong as well, so I doubt that Ali would put him out. If it was a 10-12 round fight, I think that Tyson could take a decision. If it was a 15 rounder, Ali would likely win, as he was just too solid from 13-15 against tired opponents. It is my belief that this would make for an epic fight, or series of fights. In fact, I am currently working on a story for this, which I plan to post here (accepting, in advance, the fact that I will likely get completely flamed by some and praised by others).

Can't we just agree that it would make for a great bout? The styles work well enough here to make for a brutal battle that could be decided in the last rounds.

Oh yeah, nobody was ever invincible.

[Easy-E]

Well, now you see i was right about fast feet with dancing moves in the ring would NOT effect Tyson. Thats what i was explaining.

Ali didn't have any power so no way in ****ing hell would he KO Tyson.

Jabs wouldn't work because Tyson ate jabs against every fighter who used it.

tyson has been ko'd more than any other he champ in history, with the one exception being buster douglass. ali would ko tyson with an accumlation of punches and making tyson miss, thus tiring him out. No one thought Ali had a shot in hell to beat foreman, never mind knock him out. you obviously have not seen a prime ali fight, for he would dismantle and demolish your pot smoking bum buddy

[Brassangel]

PBF34 obviously didn't read my post, which took a logical approach at the whole Tyson vs. Ali panorama. Fair enough. Also, your KO comment about champions is rather skewed, if not completely false.

Tyson was difficult to jab. Ali was difficult to put down. This makes for a great battle.

[angelo_dundee]

Ali lost some fluidity when he returned to boxing, not necessarily speed. He was a little less coordinated, and he lost a touch of stamina. It wasn't an overwhelming loss, however. Ali was still the swiftest guy around. The trouble he faced was against volume punchers who applied pressure.

Ali said several times that Patterson was the most skilled opponent he ever faced; Floyd was a Cus Volume Puncher, but he didn't apply great pressure. Instead he would circle with his opponents and use counterpunches more often then attack maneuvers. He got in some decent rounds with Muhammad, but Ali won these fights decisively.

Joe Frazier was a Volume Puncher who applied great pressure. He did have a predictable left hand, and he was almost blind in his right eye. This played well into Ali's hands, as a man who jabbed superbly towards the right eye. Even so, Frazier gave Ali lots of trouble and even puffed him up in all three contests. Muhammad Ali said that had he fought Joe Frazier in 1967, he would have been beaten by him quicker. While he was faster when he was younger, he often got ****y and tried to fire back against his (seemingly) weaker opponents. Joe would have annihilated him in this event, and Ali recognizes that. You can't deny what the man said himself.

Now take Mike Tyson. Iron Mike was a volume puncher who hit harder than either Patterson or Frazier, applied pressure better than both, had great vision in both eyes, and had quicker footspeed and hand speed than either of them. Furthermore, Mike Tyson could cut the ring off better than anyone in the history of the sport. For those who use the, "..he always got frustrated against quick moving, tall fighters..." need to spend less time watching the HBO special or listening to that moron, Sugars. Before his prison sentence, he still won convincingly against opponents where he was seemingly frustrated. (NOTE He didn't suffer frustration against Douglas; rather it was a combination of partying, poor training, poor cornermen, poor management, etc.)

Case and point: Tyson would give Ali trouble. He would probably scar him up or even knock him down. Ali kept fighting even if he was out on his feet, so I doubt there would be a KO. Tyson's chin was pretty strong as well, so I doubt that Ali would put him out. If it was a 10-12 round fight, I think that Tyson could take a decision. If it was a 15 rounder, Ali would likely win, as he was just too solid from 13-15 against tired opponents. It is my belief that this would make for an epic fight, or series of fights. In fact, I am currently working on a story for this, which I plan to post here (accepting, in advance, the fact that I will likely get completely flamed by some and praised by others).

Can't we just agree that it would make for a great bout? The styles work well enough here to make for a brutal battle that could be decided in the last rounds.

Oh yeah, nobody was ever invincible.

Yes a great fight, but I cant forsee Mikey winning any sort of decision. Now Iron Mike has a punchers chance against any man in History-including Ali- but talk of him defeating the greatest over distance is poor.

He'd have to tag Ali and then finish him off instantly. Short of that, Ali wins every scenario.

[butterfly1964]

tyson has a chance, but most likely ali would stay away from most of tyson's shots.

[BKM-]

tyson has been ko'd more than any other he champ in history, with the one exception being buster douglass. ali would ko tyson with an accumlation of punches and making tyson miss, thus tiring him out. No one thought Ali had a shot in hell to beat foreman, never mind knock him out. you obviously have not seen a prime ali fight, for he would dismantle and demolish your pot smoking bum buddy

You're talking about Tyson from the 90s/2000s

I can start talking about Mike knocking an Ali from 81 out.

[Easy-E]

You're talking about Tyson from the 90s/2000s

I can start talking about Mike knocking an Ali from 81 out.

yes, i am talking about a 15 year period where mike lost to every decent competitor he faced. his "prime" was about a year and a half, where he proved how great he really was by winning a unanamious decision against james "bonecrusher" smith. nice job, mike!