Prime Muhammad Ali-Invincible?

[butterfly1964]

Heres a article excerpt from a sportswriter:

The one great swarming heavyweight that I would give little chance to beat Ali had they both met in their primes is Mike Tyson. Ali had the perfect ring psychology to defeat Tyson. In Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times by Thomas Hauser, all five people associated with Tyson picked Ali in a dream fight over Tyson. That list included Tyson trainers Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas, former manager Bill Cayton, and former D’Amato champions Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres. In the Sept 1988 Ring when Tyson was undefeated and at the peak of his popularity, I had a letter published, "Tyson Versus Heroes of the Past" where I noted Ali's "amazing speed and footwork would easily frustrate Tyson." When Tyson was finally defeated for the first time it was the stick and move tactics of Buster Douglas that defeated him in Ali like fashion.

Tyson was at his peak at a young age while Ali hit his peak as he matured physically. What if Ali and Tyson both met at age 20? The story here might be different. Tyson peaked early, had the explosive, speed, power, head movement and good defense to get inside on the fighter then known as Cassius Clay. The young Ali had not filled out yet and his ability to take a punch was not quite what it would be later. The left hook of Sonny Banks and also the left hook of Henry Cooper dropped Clay. Tyson was far and away superior over those men in speed, power, punching accuracy and combination punching. Against a young prime Tyson, Clay/Ali is going to get hit with consecutive power shots after being rocked. The 20 year old Tyson knocks out the 20 year old Clay who had not yet reached his prime years.

Cus thinks Ali would take out tyson, and i think its safe to say he would know best.

nice article.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Indeed a brilliant article. Cus also said Foreman would destroy Tyson as well.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

in 1967 i think if somebody had a hard hit (ie:Marciano,frazier,frazier) tagged him then ali's feet may go but i'm not talking one hard tag to the body i'm talking get him in the corner and give him a barage then you'd get him, in my opinion to beat ali you have to get rid of his feet cause if you don't he'll dance around you all nite, but once you do that get ready to hit him fast cause he'll fight his way out of the corner
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[Heckler]

in 1967 i think if somebody had a hard hit (ie:Marciano,frazier,frazier) tagged him then ali's feet may go but i'm not talking one hard tag to the body i'm talking get him in the corner and give him a barage then you'd get him, in my opinion to beat ali you have to get rid of his feet cause if you don't he'll dance around you all nite, but once you do that get ready to hit him fast cause he'll fight his way out of the corner

I doubt it. It would take alot more then one barrage. Ali could absorb alot of punishment, and in 67 he was at his physical peak. Irrespective of what people say, Angelo has always stated that at that point he was as strong, and could absorb punsihment. People bring up points like HENRY COOPER, that was a young naieve cassius clay... what we should be looking at is 66-67 which was the start of his prime. His prime would of continued into the early 70's. But because of his inactivity he lost the chance to take advantage of it. He may of come back in 1970 when he SHOULD of been in his prime, but because of his idle career for 3 years he wasn't... It was SIGNIFICANT, he could not keep up dancing for more then a couple of rounds, nor was his movement as fluid. Hence we see the flat-footed Ali against quarry and more so bonavena.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

yea its too bad that he got layed off because of that layoff being at his prime its hard for ppl like me to accept what ppl like you say about his prime and its hard for ppl like you to understand were i'm coming from its like there just wasn't enough of fights in his prime to make a decent argument of either side if you get where i'm coming from
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[Brassangel]

So this article is stating that Tyson, after 1988 would lose to prime Ali. That's most likely accurate. Tyson should have had a prime that went from 85-95, but we all know how that turned out. Secondly, Douglas didn't beat Mike with stick-and-move alone, he also beat Mike because Mike stood there like a lump. Mike threw that fight away by not preparing, and Douglas looked about as good as Ali on the same night. Even so, this article you've posted is an intelligent one.

My initial assumptions still remain intact and accurate: Tyson could win fight one (when they're both young), and Ali would take 2 and 3. Regardless of the critics, the analysts, the articles, our opinions, etc., it's the fight (or series of fights) that everybody would have gotten excited about. Chances are, few would have been disappointed.

[Brassangel]

More on the topic...


"Prime" Ali is usually a matter of opinion. His physical prime was from 1966-1967. His crowning achievement(s) came from 1974-1976, when he defeated George Foreman and avenged his initial loss to Joe Frazier. Dundee says he thought Ali in 1974 was a better fighter, but he had a more physical gift in the late 1960's. Draw your own conclusions.

[Heckler]

Tyson wasn't a fighter that could adapt, and he wouldn't be able to adapt to someone with such an unorthodox style, regardless of any time he fought him.

[butterfly1964]

More on the topic...


"Prime" Ali is usually a matter of opinion. His physical prime was from 1966-1967. His crowning achievement(s) came from 1974-1976, when he defeated George Foreman and avenged his initial loss to Joe Frazier. Dundee says he thought Ali in 1974 was a better fighter, but he had a more physical gift in the late 1960's. Draw your own conclusions.

not really, cause if 1967 ali fought during the 70s, he wouldn't have lost to frazier and norton.

[Dirt E Gomez]

A Frazier with both eyes at the same age I think can beat an Ali most days and a Foreman in a fight in a place other than 100 degree weather can beat Ali. A Prime Tyson has a shot against any heavyweight in history simply because of his explosiveness and whatnot. I love Ali, but the more I involve myself in the understanding of the sport the more I see to take away from him and what I've learned in the past.