Fighters then and now....objective differences (not opinions)

[SBleeder]

They fought much more often and it was much tougher to go up in weight and fight for another belt. Sometimes a 13 or 15 pound weight difference.

Henry Armstrong was a " real" three time champ. Now the championships are
cheapened via a 4 or 5 lb weight gain.

Then you constantly read about the fighters in the several boxing magazines
and newspaper columns. Boxing is still a great sport but there are few fights now that you can't wait to happen and will actually occur. Too much
anticipation without actual results

Ps: I've watched baseball for 59 years and Sandy Koufax was
the best.

Koufax was incredible, but Ruth is the GOAT, if for no other reason, because he was also one of the game's best pitchers.

[Ray Corso]

I'd pay to see Barry Bonds play the outfield with Ruths glove!!!!!

[Scott9945]

football is a whole new game...you can hardly run a sweep anymore because the linebackers are twice as fast, strong and smart! And the QB's now a days? guys like Stabler (one of my favorites) would not last a day with these specialized offences, edimic memory mensa level QB's one has to be to survive as a QB these days. Do you guys really think a guy running against the likes of Artie Donovan could compete in today's NFL?

And Ruth? I doubt he ever faced a guy who could throw over 85 miles per an hour...though finess pitchers like Catfish Hunter might still get guys out.

Jim Brown was a lot more than just sweeps. He could go right up the middle and blow right through people. Brown was also bigger than most of the top running backs today.

Saying that nobody in Ruth's era threw over 85 is conjecture at best, as there was no way to prove that one way or the other. I suspect that pitchers like Walter Johnson were over 90 on a regular basis. Ruth didn't have the advantage of batting gloves or cushy first class air travel either. It wasn't easy for a big guy to sit on a train for many hours.

[billeau2]

Jim Brown was a lot more than just sweeps. He could go right up the middle and blow right through people. Brown was also bigger than most of the top running backs today.

Saying that nobody in Ruth's era threw over 85 is conjecture at best, as there was no way to prove that one way or the other. I suspect that pitchers like Walter Johnson were over 90 on a regular basis. Ruth didn't have the advantage of batting gloves or cushy first class air travel either. It wasn't easy for a big guy to sit on a train for many hours.

I hear you...but who would you rather have chasing you....Artie Donovan or Ray lewis?

[billeau2]

I'd pay to see Barry Bonds play the outfield with Ruths glove!!!!!

Can you picture Barry wearing Ruth's hat on his big comte sterioded head?

[Ray Corso]

Art Donovan had quick feet and was actually fast at HIS position. As to Ray Lewis he's actually undersize for a backer, who would you rather have chase you Ray Lewis or Nitchke' how about Mike Curtis or Butkus.
As this goes on you'll see that hungry players from the past are simply more effcient than most of the stars today. Do you want to get into playing or perfoming with injuries???? The greatest athletes from the past had to go to work after their seasons were over!!! Mr. Flood helped his fellow ball players out and football sky rocket because its the easiest game to follow for casual fans! Ray

[them_apples]

The purpose of this thread is to look at objective observations that determine how fighters have changed over the years. Lets back away from opinions and focus specifically on changes that occured in the sport.

For example, we know that Football players are bigger stronger faster etc and when we ask why? well the money, drugs and interest in the NFL changed the players from Artie Donovan type big strong guys to athletes at the top of the pyrmid. Baseball players used to be one step removed from criminals when the game started, during the seventies players like Wilbur Wood were hardly athletic...today? hitters are better and usually weight trained, pitchers throw harder....etc.

Yet in boxing there is debate as to whether the fighters are better. Looking at a picture of David Haye versus prime Roy Jones, Jones lookes like a guy who needs to work on his chest, Haye looks like a Greek statue....BUt unlike many other sports we can say "so what"?

What are changes you notice? Not opinions but actual empirical changes, or attitudes that changed over the years? For example, Punchstat numbers, rounds, glove size, etc?

Have at it.

If I remember Jones was shredded at heavyweight. Having a big chest has nothing to do with boxing, Jones was a superior athlete to Haye in every aspect.

[them_apples]

that being said, boxing's 2 main reasons why it's hard to decipher whos better, are mental game, and skill.

too many "superior" athletes have been trumped by skill, smarts and mental toughness in boxing. In other sports athleticism is a direct head to head matchup.

Overall if you take the most athletic guy in each era you can say boxing has slowly evolved too, but not in the skill and mental toughness game either, if anything it's declined due to easier times. How many times have we seen Zab Judah get wooped by slower less skilled fighters?

for the longest time I though Leonard was probably the most athletic guy in boxing, but Jones probably edges that now, and guys like Pacquiao are pretty solid runners up - even Rigondeux was looking pretty gifted, athletically.

[Anthony342]

Ok....I used the "chest size" to make the point that a fighting man is built differently in certain respects.... That is a specific point. I.e. the guys in the day could go forever and were built more like fighters than athletes (imo)...I mean the Gracies are similar, many of them are built like twerps and can neutralize a bigger broth of a man.....

So gang....Hiow about specific points? Like a training point, a rule point etc....We had one poster talk about gloves, thats a start....For example, in baseball we have the supposed "live ball" that gave an advantage to the hitter.

Yeah but the Gracies have mostly dominated when fighters knew one style or discipline, which is why the size advantage didn't matter then. Once fighters defended the takedowns and avoided their guard, cross trained and became more well rounded they did much better against them and BJJ fighters in general. The sport has kind of passed them by now, but they're still pioneers. Just like how some of the techniques of the very early days of boxing wouldn't work against the modern boxer. A couple of the younger generation have made adjustments, like Roger Gracie, but time will tell if the family can continue dominance in the future.

[Anthony342]

football is a whole new game...you can hardly run a sweep anymore because the linebackers are twice as fast, strong and smart! And the QB's now a days? guys like Stabler (one of my favorites) would not last a day with these specialized offences, edimic memory mensa level QB's one has to be to survive as a QB these days. Do you guys really think a guy running against the likes of Artie Donovan could compete in today's NFL?

And Ruth? I doubt he ever faced a guy who could throw over 85 miles per an hour...though finess pitchers like Catfish Hunter might still get guys out.

It's eidetic memory, by the way.