Who Thinks Butterfly Overrates every single oppnent Ali Has Fought.

[Dempsey1238]

Dempsey was NOT done, maybe not prime like Willard, but still a able fighter. But the fact remains, Sharkey hurt Dempsey in the first round.

Of couse Firpo had Dempsey out of the ring, and Carp had a similer like hurt Dempsey in round 2.
And Sharkey ko Loughran, which is no easy task for any one when one conisders how good defensive wise Loughran is.

[butterfly1964]

Dempsey was NOT done, maybe not prime like Willard, but still a able fighter. But the fact remains, Sharkey hurt Dempsey in the first round.

Of couse Firpo had Dempsey out of the ring, and Carp had a similer like hurt Dempsey in round 2.
And Sharkey ko Loughran, which is no easy task for any one when one conisders how good defensive wise Loughran is.

all the people you named are bums compared to the people frazier fought. your argument is crap right now. you're basically saying that this guy is good cause he beat a bum, which beat another bum, which beat another bum, and so on, and so on.

[Yogi]

Dempsey was NOT done, maybe not prime like Willard, but still a able fighter. But the fact remains, Sharkey hurt Dempsey in the first round.

Of couse Firpo had Dempsey out of the ring, and Carp had a similer like hurt Dempsey in round 2.
And Sharkey ko Loughran, which is no easy task for any one when one conisders how good defensive wise Loughran is.

Greek, I just finished watching the first Sharkey/Schmeling fight again and what do you think...Was Sharkey on his way to knockout win in that fight had he not landed the left hand low in the 4th?

That's what it sort of looked like to me, as Sharkey controlled the first two rounds with the jab, his footwork, and some good counter left hooks. But in the third he really started to get the measure of Schmeling and even hurt Max somewhat with a chopping right hand, followed up by a good right uppercut/left hook combination. He also landed some really good right hands in the fourth round on Schmeling and it just looked to me that Jack was in total control of that fight and had all the answers to whatever Schmeling threw at him (some really good counter left hooks, right crosses and a couple of very good uppercuts as soon as Max came within range)...I think he just may have scored that knockout if the fight had continued, and I don't know if it would've taken more than but a couple/few morew rounds.

[Yogi]

all the people you named are bums compared to the people frazier fought. your argument is crap right now. you're basically saying that this guy is good cause he beat a bum, which beat another bum, which beat another bum, and so on, and so on.

Instead of ignorantly calling a fighter(s) a "bum", wouldn't it be better to actually point out some of the things you view as weaknesses on said fighters?

[butterfly1964]

Instead of ignorantly calling a fighter(s) a "bum", wouldn't it be better to actually point out some of the things you view as weaknesses on said fighters?

ok, then how about they had the title when the mafia controlled boxing? hmmmm....

[Yogi]

ok, then how about they had the title when the mafia controlled boxing? hmmmm....

Does that make Sonny Liston a "bum" then?

[butterfly1964]

Does that make Sonny Liston a "bum" then?

no, i'm talking about all of boxing was controlled by the mafia in the early and mid 1930s. liston's handlers were suspected of being involved in the mob, but liston legitemately was the best hw at that time.

[Yogi]

no, i'm talking about all of boxing was controlled by the mafia in the early and mid 1930s.

**** man, there was a lot more mob control during the late 40's to early 60's than there was back in the 30's, and there were certainly a helluva lot more fighters that were known to be involved with or managed by the mob during Liston's time...

Even a guy like Cus D'Amato was known to hang around with mob guys even though he publicly stated that he refused to do business with them;

"The oddbal manager was also a mass of contradictions because, for all his fierce criticisms of the crooks in boxing, it was well known in the fight game that he kept the company of many shady characters, and among his closest confidants were known Mafia bosses and underworld heavies." - page 29 of Mike Tyson's 'Release of Power'

[Dempsey1238]

Greek, I just finished watching the first Sharkey/Schmeling fight again and what do you think...Was Sharkey on his way to knockout win in that fight had he not landed the left hand low in the 4th?

That's what it sort of looked like to me, as Sharkey controlled the first two rounds with the jab, his footwork, and some good counter left hooks. But in the third he really started to get the measure of Schmeling and even hurt Max somewhat with a chopping right hand, followed up by a good right uppercut/left hook combination. He also landed some really good right hands in the fourth round on Schmeling and it just looked to me that Jack was in total control of that fight and had all the answers to whatever Schmeling threw at him (some really good counter left hooks, right crosses and a couple of very good uppercuts as soon as Max came within range)...I think he just may have scored that knockout if the fight had continued, and I don't know if it would've taken more than but a couple/few morew rounds.

Not sure if Sharkey would get the knockout, but he was winning, and BIG before the 4th round foul.
I would like to belive Schmling would get things togetor by the 6 or so round, and out point Sharkey, LIKE he did in the rematch.

[supaduck]

Butterfly is just a huge Ali fan, he speaks the truth most of the time.