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Who Thinks Butterfly Overrates every single oppnent Ali Has Fought.

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  • #31
    it's a known fact that the first thing a fighter looses is speed and the last thing they lose is punching power. all ali had was speed and all marciano had was punching power, so without speed, ali would be crap in the ring, so marciano beating a slow ali doesn't mean anything.

    Very true butterfly. Ali's style is hard to maintain with age but Foremans style is simple. This is a reason why Foreman was still able to fight in his 40's, no speed but still his great punching power that formed the basis of his style.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by butterfly1964
      i use these as a criteria for matchups in that order.

      1. boxing skills

      2. size

      3. stamina

      4. heart
      1. Carnera is much better & hits harder than the mediocre Ramos, who finished his career with a sub 500 record.

      2. Carnera was about 50 lbs heavier than was Ramos when he fought Frazier.

      3 & 4. Carnera has one of the biggest hearts in Heavyweight history and also had excellant stamina for a man of his size.

      Without a doubt, Primo Carnera is a much, much better fighter than was Manuel Ramos and if I can go back to stealing your line of thinking again...

      If the mediocre Ramos could buckle Frazier's legs with a right uppercut and VERY nearly put him down in the first round, just imagine what the bigger, stronger and harder hitting Primo Carnera would've done to Joe with that right uppercut of his (Carnera's best punch).

      Primo Carnera KO-1 Joe Frazier

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      • #33
        There's an old saying,"the older I get the better I was". that is the case for Butterfly and Ali. I remember when Holmes told Marciano's brother at a news conference, that Rocky could'nt hold his jock strap, then went out and got beaten, so he never broke Marciano's consecutive win record. The point is, talk is cheap but we will never know what would have happened unless it really happened. I also remember that computer fight, having Marciano beating Ali, that would have been a mix in styles, probably in Ali's favor. You never know......

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Yogi
          1. Carnera is much better & hits harder than the mediocre Ramos, who finished his career with a sub 500 record.

          2. Carnera was about 50 lbs heavier than was Ramos when he fought Frazier.

          3 & 4. Carnera has one of the biggest hearts in Heavyweight history and also had excellant stamina for a man of his size.

          Without a doubt, Primo Carnera is a much, much better fighter than was Manuel Ramos and if I can go back to stealing your line of thinking again...

          If the mediocre Ramos could buckle Frazier's legs with a right uppercut and VERY nearly put him down in the first round, just imagine what the bigger, stronger and harder hitting Primo Carnera would've done to Joe with that right uppercut of his (Carnera's best punch).

          Primo Carnera KO-1 Joe Frazier
          let me ask you a question. who do you think is a better fighter? primo carnera or buster mathis? friggin' mathis that's who. look what frazier did to mathis. mathis has way better boxing skills than carnera.

          frazier ko 4 carnera.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by butterfly1964
            let me ask you a question. who do you think is a better fighter? primo carnera or buster mathis? friggin' mathis that's who. look what frazier did to mathis. mathis has way better boxing skills than carnera.

            frazier ko 4 carnera.
            Mathis didn't nearly have the uppercut that Carnera did, and as Manuel Ramos proved in the first round of his fight with Frazier, even a less than mediocre fighter could hurt Frazier with the right uppercut.

            Here's my play-by-play of this Carnera/Frazier fanatsy fight;

            The slow starting Joe Frazier comes out of his corner at the bell & bobs-and-weaves straight into a right uppercut from Primo Carnera, and..."Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!".

            Time of the knockout: 0:14 of the very first round for your winner...Primo Carnera!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Yogi
              Mathis didn't nearly have the uppercut that Carnera did, and as Manuel Ramos proved in the first round of his fight with Frazier, even a less than mediocre fighter could hurt Frazier with the right uppercut.

              Here's my play-by-play of this Carnera/Frazier fanatsy fight;

              The slow starting Joe Frazier comes out of his corner at the bell & bobs-and-weaves straight into a right uppercut from Primo Carnera, and..."Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!".

              Time of the knockout: 0:14 of the very first round for your winner...Primo Carnera!
              please, carnera couldn't hurt frazier.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by jazz123
                Actually, Marciano trained as hard for that fight as if it was a real boxing match.
                Rocky did train for that, yes, and lost a large amount of weight getting ready for it. But that was still a fatty fighting Ali (another fatty) on the video, and to me, Marciano looked atleast 40-50 pounds above his best fighting weight...I felt nothing but embarrassment for both of those great fighters after seeing that "fight".

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by butterfly1964
                  please, carnera couldn't hurt frazier.
                  Oh, but the less than mediocre Manuel Ramos can, is that it?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Yogi
                    Oh, but the less than mediocre Manuel Ramos can, is that it?
                    carnera was ****. he was champion only because the mafia controlled boxing. even valeuv would kick his ass.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by butterfly1964
                      carnera was ****. he was champion only because the mafia controlled boxing.
                      Primo Carnera > Manuel Ramos, and by a substantial margin.

                      P.S. The championship winning right uppercut that knocked out Jack Sharkey along the ropes looked legitimate enough to me.

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