Joe Frazier vs. Evander Holyfield

[Iliketofight]

That was insanely detailed, well-done man

[Rusty Tromboni]

Check out Lyle vs shavers with Lyle getting up from a brutal knockdown and knocking out shavers.Lyle had big problems with boxers and counter punchers and excelled vs punchers.Lyle or Shavers would have been dangerous for Joe.Its hard to believe friends or not he missed some top boxers in his run.

Which ones exactly?

Right. When I first saw The Foreman v Frazier fights well after they happened it made me think Joe was overrated. That hurky jurky style looked awful and he went down seemingly by every punch George landed. He’d miss his hook by miles. Researching more of Joes fights I appreciated him much more. He was one hard determined SOB. But Holyfield losing on cuts? Ridiculous. Was Holy ever cut? Joe reminds me of Dwight Qawi with his style. Even Tyson a bit. He had plan A and if that didn’t work resort back to plan A. Holys hook was short and accurate. Maybe not as hard as Joes but I bet he’d land it first more often if they traded. Holy has an insane chin also. Joe could miss badly at times, Holy would make him pay. Joe was a proactive fighter, pushed forward and tried his offence over and over regardless of what the success was. Holy is more reactive and counters, he’d figure out what moves Joe would cycle through fairly quick. I’m backing you up with at least a Holy decision or even a stoppage. There’s no world where Holy ever loses on cuts or swelling. Joe comes to fight and that’s where Holy excels. The guys who pick Joe, I’d like to know what there Tyson v Holyfield predictions were? If someone picked Holyfield I’d consider ur analysis more than I would if they thought Tyson would smash him.

LOL, Frazier fights almost nothing like Qawi. That's a stretch. They're both robustly built Blackmen wrought from Philadelpia gyms and who needed to compensate for being shorter than their average opponent, but that's about where the comparison ends.

Frazier fights like Armstrong, look what Armstrong did to Ross, a much better Boxer than Holyfield.

How well did Mathis box against Frazier?

How far did Chuvalo's heart and kevlar chin last him against Frazier?

Ali is called the greatest - you'll never see Holyfield slotted above him on any list. On his best night, how great did he look getting mauled by Frazier?

Jerry Quarry is so tough, whenever Holyfield hears the name he gets a strange impulse to put on a dress - how'd he do agaisnt Frazier? Remember, that was a fight he was winning.

Holyfield couldn't really box for extended periods of time. And he couldn't pop a g****. So if you wanna say that he has the tools to make it tough for Frazier, or that he lasts really deep into the fight, OK. But to try and act like he's got a chance at winning - by referencing irrelevant fights or comparing him to completely different fighters, no less - shows you still have a bit to learn.

Don’t take the Queen seriously. His only intent is to incite. He has no knowledge of the sport.

uhhhhhh.....


Wow.


Damn.



did you really just say that?


I really don't know what to say. This might be the first time anyone here has left me speechless.



Ever think of applying for a job with the current administration?

Very true.

its an interesting irony: A guy like Frazier, magnificent fighter, or even a guy like Razor Donavan, Pretty respectable talent (especially as a young fighter) were good enough to fight with essentially one hand. With razor this happened later, and I am not putting him near Frazier, but one would think in the upper leagues, there would be no one armed fighters and yet there is Frazier... A great fighter.

If a hitter could crack fastballs out of the park all day long, I doubt he would make it to the majors if he couldn't deal with any other pitches...Cooney was the same way. And one can see how it cost him so dearly against Holmes.

In Japan they have an activity (some people call it a Martial Art, but everyone knows it's not). It's called "Karate". basically they a bunch of nerds who are regularly picked on, or not atheltic enough to compete in real sports get together and have a pajama party. They all do robot dances. Your worth within the activity is based on how much money you pay, and how many robot dances you can accurately replicate.

You would think that being an activity which considers itself a Martial Art there would be some sort of competition to accurately reflect these "fighters" ability. But Nope! There's not. Instead, you're taught that your teacher learned from another teacher, who learned from another teacher (and so on, and so forth) all the way back to a grandmaster who lives in Japan. Now, to look at this guy, you would realize most 6th grade girls have more muscle mass and athelticism, and weigh the same. But don't worry! These are ANCIENT skills which have been passed down, and at some point were tested in combat. But they're too lethal to be used in contests, and too difficult to learn in a short amount of time. So keep shelling out money, maybe eventually - just maybe - you'll be considered worthy to learn the skills.

Sounds like the biggest pyramid scheme ever, but it's not I tell ya!
There's a very effective technique which they teach all students. To scream "Hi Ya!!!" Normally yelling and leaving your jaw open is a big fat "No" in fighting, but "Hiya" is the Japanase word for "****!" So basically, they teach their students to scream **** right away. That way big burly men are sure to come running to their rescue. genius.

That has nothing to do with anything here, of course. But irrelevant tangents always seem welcome here, especially when the subject really have gone over the speaker's head. But the speaker wants to be heard.

[billeau2]

Which ones exactly?



LOL, Frazier fights almost nothing like Qawi. That's a stretch. They're both robustly built Blackmen wrought from Philadelpia gyms and who needed to compensate for being shorter than their average opponent, but that's about where the comparison ends.

Frazier fights like Armstrong, look what Armstrong did to Ross, a much better Boxer than Holyfield.

How well did Mathis box against Frazier?

How far did Chuvalo's heart and kevlar chin last him against Frazier?

Ali is called the greatest - you'll never see Holyfield slotted above him on any list. On his best night, how great did he look getting mauled by Frazier?

Jerry Quarry is so tough, whenever Holyfield hears the name he gets a strange impulse to put on a dress - how'd he do agaisnt Frazier? Remember, that was a fight he was winning.

Holyfield couldn't really box for extended periods of time. And he couldn't pop a g****. So if you wanna say that he has the tools to make it tough for Frazier, or that he lasts really deep into the fight, OK. But to try and act like he's got a chance at winning - by referencing irrelevant fights or comparing him to completely different fighters, no less - shows you still have a bit to learn.



uhhhhhh.....


Wow.


Damn.



did you really just say that?


I really don't know what to say. This might be the first time anyone here has left me speechless.



Ever think of applying for a job with the current administration?



In Japan they have an activity (some people call it a Martial Art, but everyone knows it's not). It's called "Karate". basically they a bunch of nerds who are regularly picked on, or not atheltic enough to compete in real sports get together and have a pajama party. They all do robot dances. Your worth within the activity is based on how much money you pay, and how many robot dances you can accurately replicate.

You would think that being an activity which considers itself a Martial Art there would be some sort of competition to accurately reflect these "fighters" ability. But Nope! There's not. Instead, you're taught that your teacher learned from another teacher, who learned from another teacher (and so on, and so forth) all the way back to a grandmaster who lives in Japan. Now, to look at this guy, you would realize most 6th grade girls have more muscle mass and athelticism, and weigh the same. But don't worry! These are ANCIENT skills which have been passed down, and at some point were tested in combat. But they're too lethal to be used in contests, and too difficult to learn in a short amount of time. So keep shelling out money, maybe eventually - just maybe - you'll be considered worthy to learn the skills.

Sounds like the biggest pyramid scheme ever, but it's not I tell ya!
There's a very effective technique which they teach all students. To scream "Hi Ya!!!" Normally yelling and leaving your jaw open is a big fat "No" in fighting, but "Hiya" is the Japanase word for "****!" So basically, they teach their students to scream **** right away. That way big burly men are sure to come running to their rescue. genius.

That has nothing to do with anything here, of course. But irrelevant tangents always seem welcome here, especially when the subject really have gone over the speaker's head. But the speaker wants to be heard.

Another great Moronism, I mean Trombonism... "Holyfield cannot bust a g****." Lol

Yeah thats karate allright, just like wrasslin is wrestling...

Your such a moron you make morons look way less moron like!

[HOUDINI563]

For a guy with absolutely no understanding of boxing Rusty tries hard.

Frazier’s main issue was very pool coordination with his right and between left and right fists. Very well known and understood during his prime. This is why you see him punch to the body with his right but rarely to the head and rarely using combinations with both hands to the head. A great technical fighter can take this type of deficit and exploit it to a huge advantage. Holyfield has this level of technical greatness to get the job done.

Also you do know that Frazier is the only heavyweight champion never to knock out or down an opponent with their right hand. This underlines Frazier’s deficiency’s in this regard. All of which is common knowledge to those that lived through his era.

Joe himself stated he was still trying to develop a right hand very late in his career.

[QueensburyRules]

For a guy with absolutely no understanding of boxing Rusty tries hard.

Frazier’s main issue was very pool coordination with his right and between left and right fists. Very well known and understood during his prime. This is why you see him punch to the body with his right but rarely to the head and rarely using combinations with both hands to the head. A great technical fighter can take this type of deficit and exploit it to a huge advantage. Holyfield has this level of technical greatness to get the job done.

Also you do know that Frazier is the only heavyweight champion never to knock out or down an opponent with their right hand. This underlines Frazier’s deficiency’s in this regard. All of which is common knowledge to those that lived through his era.

Joe himself stated he was still trying to develop a right hand very late in his career.

- -U still ain't connected U right and left frontal lobes sorta like **********s and ********s today.

[HOUDINI563]

Sorry Queen that you cannot understand the written word. Everyone feels sorry for you.

[atomatofa]

"Smokin" Joe Frazier wore green trunks, and weighed in at 205.

[atomatofa]

Evander Holyfield (born October 19, 1962) is an American former professional boxer who competed from 1984 to 2011. He reigned as the undisputed champion at cruiserweight in the late 1980s and at heavyweight in the early 1990s, and remains the only boxer in history to win the undisputed championship in two weight classes. Nicknamed "The Real Deal", Holyfield is the only four-time world heavyweight champion, having held the unified WBA, WBC, and IBF titles from 1990 to 1992, the WBA and IBF titles again from 1993 to 1994, the WBA title a third time from 1996 to 1999; the IBF title a third time from 1997 to 1999 and the WBA title for a fourth time from 2000 to 2001.

[Rusty Tromboni]

If Frazier had the two handed coordination and right hand power of say Marciano it would be a different story. Joe had all the intrinsic abilities of an ATG. Tremendous will to win, killer instinct. He could overwhelm most fighters without a right hand. However vs those who also had ATG intrinsic abilities and the skill to negate his hook he would face an uphill battle. Very tough fight as Joe would be attacking from round one BUT Holy had the skill to minimize what he was seeing from Joes left side. Once he does that Joe has little else to offer so the scale tips to one side.

All this ranting, but still don't wanna answer my questions, huh?

When did you ever see Evander get on his bike and move like this?

If it's so simply to just evade the power hand, why didn't demonstrably craftied boxers: Mathis, Quarry and Ali do exactly that?

If anything, it's Joe's slow start and questionable chin that is cited as his weakeness - NOT yielding more space. It's just more evidence that you never Boxed, and you DKSAB!

Holyfield didn't like to fight cute. He did when he had to, but only because those big boys were already huffing and puffing. Still, those fights were violent. Holyfield did his best work on this inside. I really suspect this is a repeat of the Quarry fight. Except that, thanks to modern science, Holyfield enters the ring the bigger (not the smaller) man. Quarry was a fookin warrior, and crafty as hell. But he couldn't stop Joe once he kicked it into 6th gear.

Joe best Sn Ali only 5 months out from a 3.5 year layoff. By round 7 he was nearly spent.

Fight 2 and 3 Ali had been active and in shape and won both stopping Joe in Manila.

Frazier had ATG will to win and heart and these attributes along with everything else he brought to the table would always give Ali and most other ATG heavyweights trouble. His lack of a right hand/right hand coordination spells trouble for him with fighters with top rung technical abilities.

Soooo, you actually hold Frazier's losses to Ali against him!? In that case, Ali quit agaisnt Holmes and was embarrassed by Berbick. Young made him look like someone who could've never been a champion.

Ali had stopped Quarry and Bonavena before fight Frazier. I really don't know how you can say he was at anything less than his best. The guy Pre-Exile would have been stopped. Uncle Angelo can bring all the smelling salts he wants, that body is leaving with the mortician.

K brothers will never be rated over Ali. Fighters who are koed in laughable fashion multiple times and give up hwt championship sitting on their stool cause “my shoulder hurts too much” are not treated well by historians. I rate neither in my top ten and feel only amateur level historians would rate them top ten. They fail the most important criteria for all time greatness.

When did the K brothers ever need smelling salts to survive a Henry Cooper?

When did they ever lose to a little tyke like Frazier?

How many rounds did Ali with Norton without scoring a KO?

When did they ever have a night like Ali did against Young?

Holyfield takes it. Both had grit but Evander has more tools at his disposal

Oh yeah, which tools?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Another great Moronism, I mean Trombonism... "Holyfield cannot bust a g****." Lol

Yeah thats karate allright, just like wrasslin is wrestling...

Your such a moron you make morons look way less moron like!

How's your latest robot dance coming?

For a guy with absolutely no understanding of boxing Rusty tries hard.

Frazier’s main issue was very pool coordination with his right and between left and right fists. Very well known and understood during his prime. This is why you see him punch to the body with his right but rarely to the head and rarely using combinations with both hands to the head. A great technical fighter can take this type of deficit and exploit it to a huge advantage. Holyfield has this level of technical greatness to get the job done.

Also you do know that Frazier is the only heavyweight champion never to knock out or down an opponent with their right hand. This underlines Frazier’s deficiency’s in this regard. All of which is common knowledge to those that lived through his era.

Joe himself stated he was still trying to develop a right hand very late in his career.

So do you tip the nurse who changes your diapers?