Could somebody defend Mike Tyson as an ATG for me?

[ArtThouFurious?]

The bigger question is has Wladimir ever defeated anyone as good as Tony Tucker?

I think you can safely pick about 5 guys on Tyson's resume that would KTFO Wlad.

Hell... the slowest, most uncoordinated, most club-fighterish Heavyweight to ever fight for a title managed to connect FLUSH with a power punch and put Wlad on ***** street... and Wach isn't even a puncher. Could you imagine what would happen if devestatingly concussive punchers like Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker & Razor Ruddock were to connect with that utterly disgraceful chin? Shards of glass would fly fucking everywhere!

[ArtThouFurious?]

Who the hell did Tony Tucker ever beat? He lost everytime he stepped up. His only half-decent win came against Douglas who had been brutally knocked out several times by nobodies.
That win is not on par with any of Wlads top 10 wins.

Saaaaay. That sounds strikingly familiar.

I wonder who that might remind us of.

[dan_cov]

Saaaaay. That sounds strikingly familiar.

I wonder who that might remind us of.

Sanders and Brewster were not bad fighters by any stretch. Yeah he got caught by two hard hitting heavyweights early in his career, it happens.

Could of been worse he could of got flattened in his prime by Buster Douglas went life & death with a club fighter like Ruddock and got KTFO by Danny Williams & got pounded into submission by Kevin McBride.

[dan_cov]

I think you can safely pick about 5 guys on Tyson's resume that would KTFO Wlad.

Hell... the slowest, most uncoordinated, most club-fighterish Heavyweight to ever fight for a title managed to connect FLUSH with a power punch and put Wlad on ***** street... and Wach isn't even a puncher. Could you imagine what would happen if devestatingly concussive punchers like Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker & Razor Ruddock were to connect with that utterly disgraceful chin? Shards of glass would fly fucking everywhere!

Oh wow, he got hit with one decent powershot in a 12 round fight against a 6ft8 undefeated giant who was an amateur stand out winning numerous medals who also was apparently using PEDs and tried loading his gloves.

He beat the living **** out of Wach winning every round in the process. It was one of the most one-sided, 12 round demolition jobs of the last decade. He has taken shots flush from guys who hit just as hard as the above but one things dreaming another is doing it. Always easier said than done. More chance of Wlad putting their lights out than vice versa.

[dan_cov]

Lets be honest Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker & Razor Ruddock were not even particularly good fighters in the weakest heavyweight era maybe ever. The only guy who may come close to stealing a round against Wlad is Bruno and even then he'd get KTFO within 8 after being toyed with.

Bonecrusher Smith was a complete bum. All those fighters were starched by far lesser fighters than Sanders & Brewster.
You say Wladimir had a glass chin, none of the above exactly had a great set of whiskers themselves and none of them would ever beat any version of Wladimir.

[ArtThouFurious?]

Sanders and Brewster were not bad fighters by any stretch. Yeah he got caught by two hard hitting heavyweights early in his career, it happens.

Could of been worse he could of got flattened in his prime by Buster Douglas went life & death with a club fighter like Ruddock and got KTFO by Danny Williams & got pounded into submission by Kevin McBride.

Attempting to discredit a fighter because of early career losses to sub-par comp... while simultaneously "big upping" a fighter with early career losses to sub-par comp

You're DERP'ing all over the place breh.

And Corrie Sanders had a 20 year career without a single meaningful win... Outside of his dismantling of Ross Puritty's leftover's

I think it's safe to say that Sanders was a C+ level fighter at best.

Brewster was OK. About a B- level fighter.

Tyson beat about 10 guys better and more accomplished than Brewster and about 15-20 better fighters than Corrie Sanders.

The gap as far as career acheivements and resume is pretty large between Tyson & Wlad. The comparison is laughable.

And Buster Douglas is EASILY better than anybody Wlad has ever fought, and had the tools and skillset to give Wlad a proper beatdown H2H.

[dan_cov]

Attempting to discredit a fighter because of early career losses to sub-par comp... while simultaneously "big upping" a fighter with early career losses to sub-par comp

You're DERP'ing all over the place breh.

And Corrie Sanders had a 20 year career without a single meaningful win... Outside of his dismantling of Ross Puritty's leftover's

I think it's safe to say that Sanders was a C+ level fighter at best.

Brewster was OK. About a B- level fighter.

Tyson beat about 10 guys better and more accomplished than Brewster and about 15-20 better fighters than Corrie Sanders.

The gap as far as career acheivements and resume is pretty large between Tyson & Wlad. The comparison is laughable.

And Buster Douglas is EASILY better than anybody Wlad has ever fought, and had the tools and skillset to give Wlad a proper beatdown H2H.

Douglas was a bum that beat nobody but a very raw McCall who was never much anyway outside of a guy with a granite chin and exposed Tysons painfully overrated ass. Apart from that he did nothing and lost every single time he stepped up in brutal fashion. He was an unmotivated guy with one decent win just like Sanders. The problem with the era is it was so **** you look back on it and see around 10 guys with 1 win against another and try make out it means they had some serious potential but the truth is they was all as bad as each other.

What are Tysons career achievements apart from the youngest heavyweight champion?

Wladimir is an olympic gold medalist, has fought nearly 20 former world champions. 8 undefeated opponents. His opponents combined win-to-loss ratio exceeds that of any fighter in boxing history except Holyfield.
(Copy & paste jobby*)
Wladimir Klitschko is a 4 Time Heavyweight Champion, two-time WBO Champion and the current WBA (Super), IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion.
Klitschko is the longest reigning IBF, WBO & IBO Heavyweight Champion in history with the most title defenses for those organizations, overall he is the 5th longest reigning Heavyweight Champion of all time with the 3rd most consecutive title defenses with 13 (now 14)

[BigStereotype]

I think you're selling Corrie Sanders a little short. He did only have that one big win, but he was another unmotivated guy and he gave Vitali hell in their fight. Was he a great fighter? No. Is it an embarrassing loss for Wlad? Yes. Should he have tried to avenge it? Certainly.

But I think that Wlad has "dominated" this era (which is awful) much more thoroughly than Tyson "dominated" his (which was also awful). Tyson had a sexier skillset and was a much more exciting fighter, but I think that Wlad has been a greater champion. How you rank them is entirely up to you and it depends totally on whether you view a dynamic skillset or long resume as more important. Other than possibly Lennox Lewis and his brother (whom he gets pass on fighting from me - I'd never try and knock my brother out on television either), what major heavyweight has he not beaten? He's done what he could with what he had. It's almost like saying Wilt Chamberlain's early 60's campaigns were garbage because nobody outside of Bill Russell could guard him. His competition might not have been able to keep up, but he was as thorough as he could be in pulverizing them.

I can understand an argument for Tyson's youngest HW champion status and early unification as a better resume than Wlad's. I'm not sure I'd buy it, but I can understand the perspective. But when it comes to guys like Holyfield, Lewis, Frazier, Liston and Johnson, let alone Ali, Louis, Holmes or Dempsey, I just don't understand how anyone can say Tyson had a better career.

[ArtThouFurious?]

Douglas was a bum that beat nobody

Douglas's top wins

_______________________________

Prime UNDEFEATED Mike Tyson
Oliver McCall
Trevor Berbick
Greg Page
Tex Cobb

McCall who was never much anyway

McCall's top wins
_______________________________

Prime UNDEFEATED Lennox Lewis
Francesco Damiani
Bruce Seldon
Oleg Maskaev
Henry Akinwande


Now, for some comedy relief...


Wlad's top wins
_______________________________

Chris Byrd
Eddie Chambers
Ruslan Chagaev
David Haye "peeleft:
Samuel Peter
Jameel McCline
Calvin Brock
Sultan Ibragimov
Tony Thompson


So, a bum "that beat nobody" & a guy who was "never much" beat a level opposition that is greater than a supposed ATG?

McCall & Douglas aren't even close to being ATG's, but yet have resumes that are easily comparable to Wlad's if not GREATER, which tells you Wlad isn't an ATG at all and several leagues below Tyson.

But of course, arbitrary, randiomly compiled statistics and paper trinket defenses are more important than proving yourself against a staunch level of opposition, in Klitschko land.

Wladimir is an olympic gold medalist

So is Audley Harrison

has fought nearly 20 former glorified contenders that held paper trinkets, but has never defeated a legitimate, lineal, undisputed Heavyweight champ

fix'd....

8 undefeated can crushers with heavily padded records

fix'd....

His opponents combined win-to-loss ratio exceeds that of any fighter in boxing history except Holyfield.

Cool story, brah

Wladimir Klitschko is a 4 Time Heavyweight Champion, two-time WBO Champion and the current WBA (Super), IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion.
Klitschko is the longest reigning IBF, WBO & IBO Heavyweight Champion in history with the most title defenses for those organizations, overall he is the 5th longest reigning Heavyweight Champion of all time with the 3rd most consecutive title defenses with 13 (now 14)

But yet, doesn't have one single defense of a legitimate, lineal/undisputed Heavyweight crown.

But congratulations on racking up a bunch of meaningless alphabet soup title defenses against nothing but B & C level opposition, he'll surely reach a Sven Ottke level of greatness in due time.

[ArtThouFurious?]

I think you're selling Corrie Sanders a little short. He did only have that one big win, but he was another unmotivated guy and he gave Vitali hell in their fight.

You are aware that you can easily make this argument about somewhere around 15-20 guys that Mike Tyson DEFEATED right? And they would come out looking like alot better fighters than Corrie Sanders.

"Bonecrusher Smith is being sold short, he went the distance against prime Tyson, Knocked out Bruno & stopped Terrible Tim in 1 rd."

"Frank Bruno is being sold short, he gave Lennox Lewis one of the toughest fights of his career, defeated prime McCall, and has a KO ratio higher than Wlad's while having to face a much stauncher level of opposition"

"Tony Tubbs is being sold short, he arguably outboxed prime Bowe, defeated top contenders like Greg Page, Bonecrusher Smith, Alexander Zolkin & Bruce Seldon"

etc.
etc.
etc.

But I think that Wlad has "dominated" this era (which is awful) much more thoroughly than Tyson "dominated" his (which was also awful).

Completely false.

For one, Tyson's opposition, was much better, more talented and proven against other world level Heavyweights than Wlad's op. And his wins were in much more dominant, enthathic fashion and over a better field of Heavy's, and in that field, included two of the greatest fighters to ever live. And Tyson also recorded more wins over top 10 contenders in a shorter period of time than Wlad.

The gap between Tyson & Wlad, resume wise is HUGE. As i said before, laughable comparison.

Other than possibly Lennox Lewis and his brother (whom he gets pass on fighting from me - I'd never try and knock my brother out on television either), what major heavyweight has he not beaten?

Missing out on Lennox Lewis is a HUGE mark against his legacy.

And he missed that fight all because he couldn't manage get past a part-time golfer.



Corrie Sanders completely obliterated Wlad's chance at having a respectable legacy.