What do you guys consider a stronger Heavyweight era?

[nomadman]

The part I bolded was a problem with 78'-85' era too. Most of them just weren't driven. But I see a big gap in the overall skill levels of the two era's. Most of the contenders today are just big. They're not good combination punchers, use little head movement, rarely feint, are not committed body punchers (a huge pet peev of mine) and seldom parry or slip punches.

Maybe right at this moment, but we're in a transitional state I believe, and most of the giants currently occupying the top ten are not really representative of the division. If you look back over the last ten years a large number of the better fighters have been on the smaller side. Fast, tricky guys like Byrd and Chambers, or amateur stars like Ibragimov and Chagaev who most certainly knew a lot of the tricks given their lack of size or power. Ibragimov, especially, was very adept at feiting and parrying shots to land his own. A much better fighter than his turgid fight against Wlad showed. Povetkin used to be a very decent combination puncher, good at doubling and tripling off the hook and going to the body; you can still see flashes of it when he fights now, but his style has been badly ruined. Even the lesser guys like Brock, Lyakhovich, Oquendo knew their stuff. Both Brock and Lyakhovich were very committed body punchers, and Oquendo was tricky for anyone.

I'm not arguing that it was an era that was chock full of talent, but it was there if you cared to look.

[Scott9945]

There were a lot of talented fighters, they just lived undisciplined lifestyles and wasted their talents. Much more gifted than most of today's contenders.

I agree with that. But another major factor was Don king controlling every major heavyweight and manipulating things in his own best interests.

[Anthony342]

70's and 90's are usually described as the best, with the 70's leading. There's been a lot of average ones as you would expect and it's completely up to the observer whom he thinks is the best era's after them two.

So the '40s, when Joe Louis dominated, is considered a weak heavyweight era? Does that mean his 25 title defenses isn't considered a great achievement? What about the '60s, when Ali was considered to be in his prime?

[Scott9945]

So the '40s, when Joe Louis dominated, is considered a weak heavyweight era? Does that mean his 25 title defenses isn't considered a great achievement? What about the '60s, when Ali was considered to be in his prime?

Of course what Louis did is a great achievement. You can't create your own opponents. And the truth is that the division was very weak during the first Ali title run.

[joe strong]

There were a lot of talented fighters, they just lived undisciplined lifestyles and wasted their talents. Much more gifted than most of today's contenders.

you have a good point. witherspoon & dokes were very good fighters. i wish witherspoon would have fought tyson but issues with don king killed tim & he got fat & Lost to bonecrusher smith. dokes had a serious ******* problem but still could slug it out. at least in the 80's everyone fought each other & belts changed hands almost monthly...imo i think the 90's then ali's era are the best with todays being by far the worst. the klitschkos would do well in all eras but wouldn't be the forces they are now. arreola would be a decent gatekeeper. 78-85 was kind of weak too but thats a little before my time.i don't download many fioghts from that era.

[Anthony342]

Of course what Louis did is a great achievement. You can't create your own opponents. And the truth is that the division was very weak during the first Ali title run.

Okay, I see. So, except for maybe guys like Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston, overall, the '60s are a weak era in the heavyweight division and it was stronger when Ali made his comeback in 1971 and throughout the '70s. When Ali came back, wasn't he only considered maybe a little past prime and then almost totally past it by the mid '70s? The guy hung on until, what 1981, but probably should've retired after Foreman or at least the Spinks rematch. He was definitely shot by the time Holmes got a hold of him.

[urbanelite]

Neither Era matched late 60s - mid 70's. Also the modern heavyweight fighter is far more "bulked" up than back in the Golden era but few have the skills

[Scott9945]

Okay, I see. So, except for maybe guys like Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston, overall, the '60s are a weak era in the heavyweight division and it was stronger when Ali made his comeback in 1971 and throughout the '70s. When Ali came back, wasn't he only considered maybe a little past prime and then almost totally past it by the mid '70s? The guy hung on until, what 1981, but probably should've retired after Foreman or at least the Spinks rematch. He was definitely shot by the time Holmes got a hold of him.

I agree with all of that. Most Ali fans would probably say the optimum time for him to retire was after the third Frazier fight. After that he slipped considerably.

[StarshipTrooper]

And the truth is that the division was very weak during the first Ali title run.

From 65-70 Patterson and Liston were past prime but still dangerous. Quarry and Ellis were in their primes and Terrell was a very good contender in his prime as well. Frazier was a bit green but rapidly maturing and he'd beat Ellis for a belt before the decade closed. I wouldn't consider that a weak division at all.

Part of that perception I suppose is Ali's resume during that period wasn't really loaded with the names but that was partly because he was forced to fight in Europe against all the usual suspects since after he announced he had joined NOI he was considered radioactive to American promoters and no one would bid for his fights.

Poet

[Scott9945]

From 65-70 Patterson and Liston were past prime but still dangerous. Quarry and Ellis were in their primes and Terrell was a very good contender in his prime as well. Frazier was a bit green but rapidly maturing and he'd beat Ellis for a belt before the decade closed. I wouldn't consider that a weak division at all.

Part of that perception I suppose is Ali's resume during that period wasn't really loaded with the names but that was partly because he was forced to fight in Europe against all the usual suspects since after he announced he had joined NOI he was considered radioactive to American promoters and no one would bid for his fights.

Poet

But Ali's title reign was from 1963-67. Quarry (and Frazier) was just a prospect and Ellis was regarded as Ali Lite. Patterson was Ali's first title defense even though he was just KO'd in the 1st round by the same guy Ali had just stopped twice. Terrell was more difficult than talented. When Ali toured Europe, there weren't any worthy contenders being held back here in the US. All in all, a weak period for heavyweights.