Dempsey vs. Marciano

[Marchegiano]

Your elevator clearly doesn't make it to the top.


You simply pretend things away.


Tell me how Dempsey slaughtering Wills, Jeannette, Johnson and Langford could have done anything for your argument. Just more people that Dempsey would have slaughtered. Just more ammunition for the cannon that blows away your argument that Marciano would fair well against a bigger better fighter.


Now please, go off topic again. Your non-sequitors are quite entertaining.

You struggle to make sense of it because you're supposing my motivations for me. This isn't a difficult concept and no one is forcing you to agree with it.

What does it do for my argument indeed....It would make Jack a real World champion instead of simply World champion of the chosen white.

It clearly bothers the piss out of you when I say things like Rocky Marciano dominated his era and Jack Dempsey did not but that is exactly what happened.

Now cry about Rock's era being weak or Jack's ability to 'slaughter' anyone from his era as if that changes anything.

Oh yeah, sure bubba, Jack him so good him should just be automatically given the benefit of doubt and lifted to heights he didn't actually earn because we really really like him and also look at the video....surely because Jack Dempsey knocked the piss out of Frenchy McFrench pant...because you know how fierce ****in' france has been in the HW division...that makes him a man who fought and beat everyone in an inclusive ranking era. He didn't but **** it we like him so much let's just pretend like he did and treat him like he did.

I'm the pathetic one here yeah?

[Zmerai Khan]

I can't give too much credit to the white guys who only fought other white guys. Not compared to Marciano, who defeated much better competition than Dempsey ever faced, excepting Tunney....another white guy who only fought white guys.

White heavyweights have never been good. Never. Except for Marciano.

And probably you love rosebushes for their lovely thorns, and despise the ****** useless flowers that shield their view...


Whites dominated Boxing for over a Century. WWII had near apocalyptic effect on American and European social life. As such, ethnic Whites weren't a meaningful part of the Boxing scene.

Certainly Heavyweights got bigger. Certainly Heavyweights benefited from improved science in diet and exercise. Certainly Heavyweights are able to build upon past accomplishments. But being more coddled doesn't make them better, per se. And the absence of ethnic Whites is more of a caveat against them, than the inverse (pre-WWII Champs refusing to face Blacks).

Look at how Ukrainians are taking over Boxing. Or in MMA (which doesn't require having been raised in an inner-city) where Whites plainly dominate.

You might wisely pick Ali or Tyson to pick any earlier (much smaller) White champion. But what about comparing men of the same size? Foster, Spinks, Patterson, Moore, Jones and Charles were all fabulous fighters. But i'm not sure which of them can be counted to beat Conn, Loughran, Tunney and Dempsey, all.

[Zmerai Khan]

i'm butt hurt that you exposed me for a ranting lunatic without a meaningful argument or subject knowledge. So i'm going to testify to my M.O. rambling incessantly while ignoring the painful truth!

Mom where's my meatloaf!?

Yup.


BTW, Sharkey smokes Rocky.

[HOUDINI563]

I don’t look at whether a fighter is white or black or any color inbetween. My sole intent, which should be ever logically thinking persons intent, is to portray history as it was. NOT as one would like it to be. The only way to do so is by understanding the entire history and not just snippets. Snippets almost always lead to invalid conclusions. Secondly one must be able to envision that history in the mindset of those who lived it. Too many make the huge error of looking at past events through today’s eyes

[HOUDINI563]

Also SIZE is the last thing one looks at when comparing past hwt champions. Size is a simple parameter that the amateur boxing historian gravitates to. One needs to look at style, SKILL, heart, will to win, toughness...THE ABILITY TO FIGHT. Style wise men like Dempsey and Marciano would always give Holmes and Ali hell. Great crouching maulers are the way to fight tall rangy boxers. Both were far superior technically to Frazier who was for all intents and purposes a one handed fighter.

[Zmerai Khan]

Wading in is mostly a white thing (think Marciano), being slick and cute is mostly a black thing (think Walcott). There are exceptions, but large scale those are the trends I think I see. If we had more film of early black fighters they might show themselves to be more diversified than they now appear through our narrow angle lens.

No. Armstrong, Robinson, and Louis have to be the 3 best offensive fighters ever. That's beating out men like Charles, Saddler and Williams. All were contemporaries. So was the best pure-Boxer ever: Willie Pep. And he built off a foundation crafted by men like Leonard, Loughran, Crobett and Griffith.

[HOUDINI563]

Style of fighting has nothing to do with race. Never has had anything to do with race.

[Marchegiano]

Yup.


BTW, Sharkey smokes Rocky.

You sure do a whole lot of projecting bud.

There's a reason why you're spewing personal insults and behaving like an emotional little dog's pizzle while neglecting to speak to any point I raised and attempting to supplement those points with declarations that I not only did not say but did not even allude to.

There's a reason I am not.

[Zmerai Khan]

Also SIZE is the last thing one looks at when comparing past hwt champions. Size is a simple parameter that the amateur boxing historian gravitates to. One needs to look at style, SKILL, heart, will to win, toughness...THE ABILITY TO FIGHT. Style wise men like Dempsey and Marciano would always give Holmes and Ali hell. Great crouching maulers are the way to fight tall rangy boxers. Both were far superior technically to Frazier who was for all intents and purposes a one handed fighter.

Here I have to disagree. Just a little bit.

I don't doubt that Marciano and Dempsey could put up impressive displays against later champions. But I think size would prove the deciding factor. Think Duran vs Hagler, or how Jones' Hw career capped off against Big Gay Al... or even how seemingly invincible Patterson and Foster became punching bags.

The sport evolved, with only the laws of physics remaining the same.

[HOUDINI563]

Today in the hwt division we have very large low skilled fighters only conditioned to fight 12 rounds max. The entire sport has been so heavily diluted down the past 30 plus years with all the many multiple champions and 40 plus “contenders” per division. Easy to be a champion easy to be a contender.