Dempsey vs. Marciano

[Joe Beamish]

Holyfield definitely would have defeated Rocky. Had 20-30 pounds over him as a HW, and he took a much better punch.

As far as Ali saying he wasn't sure he would defeat Rocky, that's obviously a charade. Ali was banned then and needed the money and went with that fictional match up. What Ali really thought is clear from his "greatest of all times" oft-repeated mantra.

Hell Larry Holmes jock strap comment is a hint to what modern HWs know to be the truth re CW Marciano.

Holyfield was doping. PEDs changed the game in boxing as surely as it did in all the other sports, from the 80s on.

[HOUDINI563]

If you think Fury is a good fighter you have sooooo much to learn. When I watched him fight Wlad I alternately laughed at his comical skill set and shook my head so shocked as to how far the hwt division had fallen.

The main problem with Johnson fighting JEANETTE, McVey and Langford was two fold:

1). Promoters would continually back out of the deal. The thought at that time was a fight between two black fighters would not draw flies. The boxing public predominantly wanted to see a white fighter beat Johnson.

2). Johnson could get $30,000 to fight a white contender and was often offered far less to fight a black. It was a much better business deal to fight a white fighter.

Also Wills did not really become a contender until 1915-1916. He was not a true contemporary of Johnson.

[johnbook]

Holyfield was doping. PEDs changed the game in boxing as surely as it did in all the other sports, from the 80s on.

I wonder about PEDS and boxing. Can PEDS help a boxer's punch resistance?

While it can aid increasing muscle mass, does that necessarily translate into punching power? Extra mass rapidly developed might slow down a punch. Has it been proven scientifically to significantly aid a boxer and if so how?

[Zmerai Khan]

I was one of the few who picked him to stop Hearns when they initially fought however.

This is a healthy point.

It's hard to know what will happen unless a fight actually happens.

If Hearns had avoided facing Leonard at Ww, I don't doubt that the majority would be calling Tommy the best Welterweight not named Ray Robinson. After that, i'm not sure he beats Griffith or Walker... but again, there's no way of knowing.

But Ray pulled off quite the feat.

[travestyny]

I know that Wills wasn't going to break Dempsey's ribs - he wasn't even going to hear the final bell. And Dempsey had grown into a national hero.

This is a healthy point.

It's hard to know what will happen unless a fight actually happens.

If Hearns had avoided facing Leonard at Ww, I don't doubt that the majority would be calling Tommy the best Welterweight not named Ray Robinson. After that, i'm not sure he beats Griffith or Walker... but again, there's no way of knowing.

But Ray pulled off quite the feat.

This dude is so ******ed that he makes a post and completely contradicts himself 5 posts later.

[Zmerai Khan]

LMAO. So you're saying the great Dempsey was involved in fixed fights?


Great. If he would have a fight fixed, he damn sure would avoid fights as well.

Logic is not your strong point. You've proven that throughout this thread. But this post is especially egregious. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Pep also famously threw a fight. I guess if we're making baseless assumptions we can be sure that he was a wild brawler known for getting hit but hitting back much harder?

[travestyny]

Logic is not your strong point. You've proven that throughout this thread. But this post is especially egregious. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Pep also famously threw a fight. I guess if we're making baseless assumptions we can be sure that he was a wild brawler known for getting hit but hitting back much harder?

You already embarrassed yourself kid? Do I have to remind you?


One post above your last post, you fvvcking moron

That's what happens when a complete idiot tries to play troll. You tripped yourself up, dummy.

[Zmerai Khan]

If you think Fury is a good fighter you have sooooo much to learn. When I watched him fight Wlad I alternately laughed at his comical skill set and shook my head so shocked as to how far the hwt division had fallen.

If you're comparing him to Pernell Whitaker, fine. If you realize that he's over 6'6'' and 250 pounds, then no.

Fury has very good foot work. Very good. His head movement and spatial awareness are also impressive. You may not find him appealing, but you also may not understand what you're watching. The main point, though, is you can't name anyone better.

Some fighters have con****uous talents that are really appealing, but are actually limited fighters - Niccolino Locche defensively, Julian Jackson offensively.
Fury isn't that sort of fighter. And that's just fine.

[Zmerai Khan]

This dude is so ******ed that he makes a post and completely contradicts himself 5 ...

Except that adults are capable of nuance. Not something you're familiar with, of course.

But I'd love to hear why you think Wills was a Hearns, Leaonard, Dempsey calibre fighter.

Bizarre upsets occur. But we're clearly not talking about mismatches. Wills-Dempsey was a mismatch.
Hell, Sharkey violently ****d Wills for rounds and rounds. But got smoked by a Dempsey who never shifted out of second gear.

[Zmerai Khan]

I wonder about PEDS and boxing. Can PEDS help a boxer's punch resistance?

While it can aid increasing muscle mass, does that necessarily translate into punching power? Extra mass rapidly developed might slow down a punch. Has it been proven scientifically to significantly aid a boxer and if so how?

You're kidding right!?!?!?!?

Two words: Yoel Romero. That guy's mastered cycling to a level that would spook Rich Piana's ghost. He quits when things get difficult, naturally, but he's more explosive than a keg of dynamite.

Plenty of other fighters in MMA, especially the ones that bank on being explosive, have looked other-wordly while doping, only to look like dog schit when clean: Vitor Belfort, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, Kevin Randleman, Takanori Gomi, Alistair Overeem, Anthony Pettis... we could go on all day.

MMA is much more explosive than Boxing and Kickboxing. And with it transitioning almost overnight from a sport that encouraged PED abuse to one which has almost set up an Inquisition, we can see drastic consequences. PEDs work extremely well.

So yeah, if you've ever scratched your head wondering why we suddenly had humans like Holyfield and Jones... and then where they've gone in the VADA era, now you know.

And yes, PEDs should be banned.