Dempsey vs. Marciano

[HOUDINI563]

No. Ali’s comments were spoken while he was hwt champion in the 75-76 time frame. I watched these comments live on ABC WW of Sports. The video is readily available on YouTube. The idea that “Ali would not allow Marciano to hit him” is absurd. Frazier gave Ali hell in three bouts. Marciano was Frazier’s superior and had KO power in both fists whereas Joe really was a one handed slugger.

[Zmerai Khan]

Well that's certainly not an answer.

Do you think trolling makes up for your obvious shortcomings?

I know that Wills wasn't going to break Dempsey's ribs - he wasn't even going to hear the final bell. And Dempsey had grown into a national hero.

[Zmerai Khan]

No. Ali’s comments were spoken while he was hwt champion in the 75-76 time frame. I watched these comments live on ABC WW of Sports. The video is readily available on YouTube. The idea that “Ali would not allow Marciano to hit him” is absurd. Frazier gave Ali hell in three bouts. Marciano was Frazier’s superior and had KO power in both fists whereas Joe really was a one handed slugger.

Frazier was Armstrong-esque. He also was a step quicker than Marciano. The 20-30 extra pounds he carried into the ring certainly meant for something.

I don't doubt that Marciano would do better than Patterson, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, and maybe even Shavers. But what do you see him doing that Frazier couldn't?

I'd really like your insight since I know i'll get an educated response.

[HOUDINI563]

Understand I am no huge fan of Marciano. The objections I read on here concerning Rocky were the same I had 25 years ago. Over time my observations concerning Marciano has grown and with it a appreciation of his abilities which were numerous.

Frazier was highly one dimensional. He lacked coordination between his left and right hands. With Joe it was 95% left hook. IF he had that coordination and the right hand of say Msrciano I highly doubt Ali goes 15 rounds in 71.

Watch the two videos I posted. You won’t see the parry’s, blocks and counters Marciano was capable of from Frazier.

AGAIN.....weight is the last thing you should ever think of. In a hypothetical fight between Joe and Rocky that 15-20 pounds would be meaningless.

Rocky’s ultra low crouch makes Joe’s hook much harder for him to land to the head. Marciano’s right over Joes low left would be the KO blow.

Frazier’s only advantage would be the speed of his left hook as well as less tendency to cut.

Joe was also an exceedingly slow starter which could be a major issue vs Marciano.

[Zmerai Khan]

Tyson lacked the will to win that defines an ATG hwt champion.

Again weight and reach are the last things to consider. A great crouching fighter can negate a larger opponents reach.

Marciano was far away from a wild slugger. He was cute in there always ducking, parrying, slipping and countering. Walcott stated he would hit Rocky at will. Was very different story in the ring however. You can see many times Walcott setting traps only to search for Marciano to hit him. Rocky’s head was always a moving target.

Would you pick Chavez to beat Ray Leonard, or Lomachenko to beat Spence? How about Hagler to beat Marciano? Size matters.


Marciano gets undue criticism. But the idea that he can pull off what he did against Matthews, Charles and Walcott in later generations is a stretch.

[HOUDINI563]

Sorry. You are wrong. Weight counts much more in lower weight divisions. A hwt who knows how to put his full weight behind a blow can KO any fighter regardless of weight. Add to this that Marciano was just a far greater fighter than Frazier.

[johnbook]

No. Ali’s comments were spoken while he was hwt champion in the 75-76 time frame. I watched these comments live on ABC WW of Sports. The video is readily available on YouTube. The idea that “Ali would not allow Marciano to hit him” is absurd. Frazier gave Ali hell in three bouts. Marciano was Frazier’s superior and had KO power in both fists whereas Joe really was a one handed slugger.

Well I disagree and stand by everything I said except the date as I just saw it on yt. And I think Ali was being political if you catch my drift.

My quote: ""Just after Frazier III in Manilla, Ali made clear that he thought Frazier was "the greatest of all times, next to me."" stands as that was also made well after the sparring session, and was true sentiment.

I disagree that Marciano was greater than Frazier. Frazier had 5 inch longer reach and some things he did like leaping left hook against Ali I--I don't see from Rocky.

Only Ali and "monster" Foreman had Frazier's #. I think many recent HWs would have beaten Marciano as Holmes alluded to in his jockstrap comment and paid the price for. They might not have KOed Rocky but would have won by decision. Prime Ali would have danced and stuck. Marciano never gets close. Marciano's fame built mostly on older fighters.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[HOUDINI563]

Frazier’s Reach has nothing to do with anything.

Ali saying Frazier was the greatest just after nearly being stopped by him is a heavily tainted comment.

Leaping left hook again has nothing to do with anything.

You have plenty to learn.

[johnbook]

Frazier’s Reach has nothing to do with anything.

Ali saying Frazier was the greatest just after nearly being stopped by him is a heavily tainted comment.

Leaping left hook again has nothing to do with anything.

You have plenty to learn.

Now tell us why you despise Sugar Ray Leonard?

[HOUDINI563]

Despised. At that time I saw him as a brash media star. I was one of the few who picked him to stop Hearns when they initially fought however. His ability to do just about anything in the ring including punch cannot be denied.