1 Billion: Calzaghe true great or over rated fraud?

[The Surgeon]

Definitely more Fraud then true all time great.

His title defenses consisted of pretty much...nothing until the last few. 2 of his biggest wins against Reid & Hopkins, he arguably lost and never even tried to rematch because he knows he lost.

On a scale of 1-10 his resume is like a 7.

I havent watched the Reid fight in years but i remember thinking he deserved to have the win over Joe. Even if u did feel Joe win he should never (if he's as good as people claim) have been going life and death with a fighter of Reids limited ability. His stinker with Starie always sticks in my mind too, Urrrgh awful

[IronDanHamza]

calderon was a fantastic boxer at his best.

he really was something else. his head doesn't even make it past the top rope.


ottke sucked
he relied on horrible judging and refereeing. he never stepped up in class
he had nothing going for him. i really cant stand the idea that boxers can have careers like his while other more deserving guys endure hardships.


for me calzaghe is somewhere in the middle in terms of what he actually proved. and of course caldron went out on his shield against a superior challenger at the end of his career in what i thought was last years second best fight, giving him a huge boost in my book.
he was a very good fighter
we never got a chance to see how great he was because of the depth of his competition

kessler was his best opponent. at the time people were talking about kessler like he was one of the best kept secrets in boxing, and they really weren't that off. he was a very good fighter. he had physical abilities, one of the best and most active one-two's we've seen of late, a good chin, and was at the top of a huge undefeated run. and calzaghe beat him up.



i'm not going to tell a fighter when to retire, but joe could have gone after bigger fights toward the end of his career, or even came back after a brief retirement.

his skills hadn't seemed to diminish greatly, and there was certainly plenty left to do in terms of building a legacy, even if there were almost no names for him to fight at the time of his retirement as we've discussed in previous threads


i'd probably start my scoffing at lists that place calzaghe anywhere but the 90ish plus level of a top 100 list
i've been hearing that general area from some contemporary writers, and though it's obviously too early to say for sure, i tend to think that's an ok ballpark

in my eyes he doesn't feel like a top 100 fighter
but that's just an opinion
and one that will certainly differ in one direction or the other, or become more concrete as time goes by

Calderon was a good fighter, but that's where it stops for me.

I once thought he may be HOF quality but if you look at his resume he really isn't. Even with his title defences.

I see what you're saying but we can discuss who why and where about Calzaghe's career all day.

The fact is; accross his entire career he only fought 3 fighters who were ranked in the Top 5 in their respective division, in Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins.

One was terrible, the other was solid, and the other was heading into his mid 40's.

None are exceptional wins.

Calzaghe will no question make into the HOF, although I believe there are many that should over him.

But a Top 100 ATG? Joe Calzaghe, is not.

[IronDanHamza]

Definitely more Fraud then true all time great.

His title defenses consisted of pretty much...nothing until the last few. 2 of his biggest wins against Reid & Hopkins, he arguably lost and never even tried to rematch because he knows he lost.

On a scale of 1-10 his resume is like a 7.

7?!

Who do you rank as a 6?

[IronDanHamza]

Well we do kind of, Ottke wouldnt otherwise get a mention at all, although some of his decision "wins" are worth umm discussing lol

Between u and me Dan (Dont tell anyone!) i dont like Joe but thought in the intrest of balance and debate i should say SOMETHING positive and i was clutching a tad, dont just want it to be a hate thread u know but then hey if it does turn into a hate thread so be it lol

But, there is a difference from 'getting a mention' and being considered a great fighter.

Ottke woudn't get metioned without has defences but he will never, ever, be considered a great fighter.

Which is pretty much the only argument that can be given for Calzaghe being an all time great.

Because it's certainly not his resume.

[The Surgeon]

But, there is a difference from 'getting a mention' and being considered a great fighter.

Ottke woudn't get metioned without has defences but he will never, ever, be considered a great fighter.

Which is pretty much the only argument that can be given for Calzaghe being an all time great.

Because it's certainly not his resume.

U wont get an Argument out of me on this bud, Zags resume flops and his longevity is what makes him have a case tho like u its not enough for me....

I was pretty big on Ivan Calderon btw, and he could mesmorise with his pure boxing at times - such a tiny man too but ur right he isnt HOF material.

[$Bullsfam$]

7?!

Who do you rank as a 6?

Ok maybe an 8 but people I'd rank below him would be Eubanks or Benn.

[crold1]

U wont get an Argument out of me on this bud, Zags resume flops and his longevity is what makes him have a case tho like u its not enough for me....

I was pretty big on Ivan Calderon btw, and he could mesmorise with his pure boxing at times - such a tiny man too but ur right he isnt HOF material.

Yes he is and he'll get in.

[The Surgeon]

Yes he is and he'll get in.

Ur talking about Ivan yeah?

I should have said imo, i mean im a big fan id be happy for him if he did get in i just dont think he will or really should

Calzaghe Will get in but good god it will ruin my day

[crold1]

Ur talking about Ivan yeah?

I should have said imo, i mean im a big fan id be happy for him if he did get in i just dont think he will or really should

Calzaghe Will get in but good god it will ruin my day

That's fair. I'd bet the house he's in, if not right away then eventually. He gets in the same way guys like Galaxy did. Sustained brilliance, even when comp is sometimes questionable, counts for a lot. Calderon being familiar to the U.S. market puts him over the top.

[The Surgeon]

That's fair. I'd bet the house he's in, if not right away then eventually. He gets in the same way guys like Galaxy did. Sustained brilliance, even when comp is sometimes questionable, counts for a lot. Calderon being familiar to the U.S. market puts him over the top.

Well hopefully ur right, i dont suppose being involved in a FOTY with Segura will hurt his chances too much either thinking about it...

Still i dont feel he has done enough personally

Whats ur take on Calzaghe?