1 Billion: Calzaghe true great or over rated fraud?

[Welsh Jon]

Like I said, I'm not getting into the who, who, what, where, when and why's to these names and why, how or if they should have happened.

And I merely listing the fighters that were ranked in the Top 5 of the Super Middleweight division during Joe Calzaghe's reign that he didn't fight.

Am I claiming he ducked them? God no.

Am I claimed he should have fought them all? God no.

Am I claiming it's his fault he fought none of them? God no.

Again, I am simply listing fighters that were ranked in the Top 5 that he didn't fight.

Most of them, there was no public demand for, literally at all. And you're right most probably people would laugh them off regardless.

But, what he would have to gain from taking any of those fights, is; a fighter to add to his resume that was ranked in the Top 5 when he fought them.

Because as of right now, all he has is; Kessler, Lacy and Hopkins. And for one reason or another, no matter how long we go over and why's and how's of his possible opponents the fact remains that that is all he has in terms of top ranked opposition.

Were all of the guys you listed really rated top 5 during Calzaghe's reign? I'm guessing most of them were top 10. Calzaghe has fought several top 10 guys. Kessler, Lacy and Bika were certainly rated top 10 by the Ring magazine, Kessler and Bika are still. He fought, Brewer and Mitchell within 18 months of "losing" their belts to Ottke, I'm pretty sure they were ranked in the top 10 at the time. Robin Reid was ranked in the top 10 by the Ring when he lost to Lacy in 2005, so I'm pretty sure he would have been ranked in 1999, about a year after he'd lost his title. He fought Woodhall a year after he'd lost his world title so he was likely to still be ranked in the top 10. Even Peter Manfredo was ranked in the top 10 by the Ring when he "challenged" Calzaghe.

I'm not saying they are all the cream of the crop but they were top 10 ranked at the time of facing Calzaghe, and better than some of the guys you listed.

I'm not saying Calzaghe is top 100 ATG pound for pound, just that he's the no 1 Super-Middleweight of all time. Honestly name me a Super-Middleweight with a better CV.

[IronDanHamza]

Were all of the guys you listed really rated top 5 during Calzaghe's reign? I'm guessing most of them were top 10. Calzaghe has fought several top 10 guys. Kessler, Lacy and Bika were certainly rated top 10 by the Ring magazine, Kessler and Bika are still. He fought, Brewer and Mitchell within 18 months of "losing" their belts to Ottke, I'm pretty sure they were ranked in the top 10 at the time. Robin Reid was ranked in the top 10 by the Ring when he lost to Lacy in 2005, so I'm pretty sure he would have been ranked in 1999, about a year after he'd lost his title. He fought Woodhall a year after he'd lost his world title so he was likely to still be ranked in the top 10. Even Peter Manfredo was ranked in the top 10 by the Ring when he "challenged" Calzaghe.

I'm not saying they are all the cream of the crop but they were top 10 ranked at the time of facing Calzaghe, and better than some of the guys you listed.

I'm not saying Calzaghe is top 100 ATG pound for pound, just that he's the no 1 Super-Middleweight of all time. Honestly name me a Super-Middleweight with a better CV.

Every last one of them were ranked in the Top 5 during Calzaghes reign, yes.

Calzaghe fought guys in the Top 10 like you mentioned. Everyone one of them except Woodhall (I think). But, none, were in the Top 5 when he fought them.

Some fough used to be in the Top 5 like Reid, Brewer and Mitchell but weren't, however, in the Top 5 when he fought them.

As I said, I'm not saying they would have done alot for his legacy. I'm simply listing the fighters ranked in the Top 5 during his reign that he didn't fight. In response tp another poster who said he fought all contenders, which he didn't.

Calzaghe probably has the best resume at 168 of all time. But then you have to conider that Ottke and Kessler are probably #2 and #3.

Just throwing that out there.

[Welsh Jon]

Ok I'm bowing out of this thread, seems to be going in circles now.

IronDanHamza, I've enjoyed debating with you, your clearly an intelligent, well-informed guy. You stick to the facts and don't take cheap shots which is always good.

Every time I start out on a new boxing message board I get dragged into at least one thread like this, I can't help myself. It just really annoys me when Joe gets called a fraud, cos he's not. He wasn't a protected champion who had a long reign by staying away from anyone who was a threat, it's just there were very few real threats to him. If he'd taken the initiative and moved up in weight sooner he'd be a lot better respected , but he didn't so he has to be content with being remembered as the best champion of a crappy division.

If it wasn't for the emotional attachment for the guy, based mainly on geographical factors I probably wouldn't defend the guy so fiercely.

People may hate him, but he'll always be my boy!