1 Billion:I think Joe Louis would have beaten Muhammad Ali

[them_apples]

Why isnt he defensive enough to thwart Alis jab all night long? Louis had a great defense, blocking parry, slipping jabs and it was definetly the jab problem that hurt Ali in the case of Norton, Louis is a lot more complete than you give him credit for, and why would it be so hard fo him to keep up with Alis assault when hes costantly blocking the jab? blocking alis jab would destroy his ryhtmn

he got dropped numerous time in his career because of poor defense. EVERYONE tried parrying Ali's jab. Like I said thats something you learn in the Am's. Just look at Foreman and Williams coming in trying to Parry the jab. Louis would come in the same way only he's smaller. On the inside yes he would do more damage than them, but not enough to get rid of Ali.

[StarshipTrooper]

he got dropped numerous time in his career because of poor defense. EVERYONE tried parrying Ali's jab. Like I said thats something you learn in the Am's. Just look at Foreman and Williams coming in trying to Parry the jab. Louis would come in the same way only he's smaller. On the inside yes he would do more damage than them, but not enough to get rid of Ali.

BTW, I was unaware you had changed your views on Louis so my apologies for misrepresenting you

Poet

[kendom]

he got dropped numerous time in his career because of poor defense. EVERYONE tried parrying Ali's jab. Like I said thats something you learn in the Am's. Just look at Foreman and Williams coming in trying to Parry the jab. Louis would come in the same way only he's smaller. On the inside yes he would do more damage than them, but not enough to get rid of Ali.

numerous times? in his prime he was only dropped 2 times(correct if im wrong) by buddy baer and Tony Galento which were of the flask knockdown variety-lets not exaggerate, many heavyweights are knocked down, Jack johnson was knocked down by a crude brawler like Stanley Ketchel, did he have poor defense? Holmes was knocked down by Renaldo Snipes and Earnie Shavers did he have poor defense?, if everyone tried parrying his jab then Norton was the only one to use it to great success, and why wouldnt he do enough to get rid of Ali? body shots go a loooooooong way to slow a fighter down, coupled with the technical difficulty Ali would be experiencing with the blocking and countering of his jab, and the fact that Ali would be flirting with danger leaning back to avoid Louis blows, no mans chin is impregable, especially among the heavyweight division, I can see Ali getting knocked out, possibley around the 13th round.

[JAB5239]

numerous times? in his prime he was only dropped 2 times(correct if im wrong) by buddy baer and Tony Galento which were of the flask knockdown variety.

Schmeling, Braddock, and Walcott. Not all in his prime and not all because he had a weak chin either. If we're going to look at Joe's chin as weak, than we have to look at his amazing skills to recuperate as well. This is something that is seldom talked about.

[them_apples]

Schmeling, Braddock, and Walcott. Not all in his prime and not all because he had a weak chin either. If we're going to look at Joe's chin as weak, than we have to look at his amazing skills to recuperate as well. This is something that is seldom talked about.

I don't think he was chinny, he just had poor defense and was caught with big punches. Thats my argument. Why Ali wouldn't catch him and drop him enough times too make it a lopsided decision is beyond me.

[Greatest1942]

I don't think he was chinny, he just had poor defense and was caught with big punches. Thats my argument. Why Ali wouldn't catch him and drop him enough times too make it a lopsided decision is beyond me.

This kind of logic is fun.

Ali himself was caught with big punches often...In his prime and more so when past his prime.
Sonny Banks, Cooper, Frazier all dropped him. He was caught with some big punches against Oscar...Norton broke his jaw...Leon Spinks beat him...

Why can't Louis who was a far better puncher than all of the above beat him to a lopsided decision..
This is my counter arguement.

[kendom]

Schmeling, Braddock, and Walcott. Not all in his prime and not all because he had a weak chin either. If we're going to look at Joe's chin as weak, than we have to look at his amazing skills to recuperate as well. This is something that is seldom talked about.

I know the recuperative ability is always overlooked because he was knocked down, whenever he was knocked down he quickly got back up and was in control of the fight, my point is Louis didnt have a poor defense at all- many heavyweights before have been knocked down by lesser fighters. You cant use those knockdowns as evidence that he had "poor defense"

[Greatest1942]

I know the recuperative ability is always overlooked because he was knocked down, whenever he was knocked down he quickly got back up and was in control of the fight, my point is Louis didnt have a poor defense at all- many heavyweights before have been knocked down by lesser fighters. You cant use those knockdowns as evidence that he had "poor defense"

Yea Ali had the better chin and Louis had phenomenal recovery..most of his knock downs were flash knock downs where he got back up immediately. There will hardly be a KO.

Its actually fun discussing these stuffs with guys like Poet. Ultimately honestly it doesnt matter who beats who. They are the top 2 in any list and their legacies are cemented.

Lets understand one thing Louis could beat Ali and Ali could beat Louis. They never met and never will unfortunately...but who cares...two greats of boxing
When I look around the heavy weight division now, I shake my head...God how we miss those great heavies of the past

[Greatest1942]

Yea Ali had the better chin and Louis had phenomenal recovery..most of his knock downs were flash knock downs where he got back up immediately. There will hardly be a KO.

Its actually fun discussing these stuffs with guys like Poet. Ultimately honestly it doesnt matter who beats who. They are the top 2 in any list and their legacies are cemented.

Lets understand one thing Louis could beat Ali and Ali could beat Louis. They never met and never will unfortunately...but who cares...two greats of boxing
When I look around the heavy weight division now, I shake my head...God how we miss those great heavies of the past

Poet I also believe that while trying to play with his opponenets head Ali often went over the line. The hatred that Frazier feels for Ali today is not totally unjust.

"Truth is, I'd like to rumble with that sucker again—beat him up piece by piece and mail him back to Jesus.... Now people ask me if I feel bad for him, now that things aren't going so well for him. Nope. I don't. Fact is, I don't give a damn. They want me to love him, but I'll open up the graveyard and bury his ass when the Lord chooses to take him."---Joe Frazier.

[KO'er]

A lot of the time I say it's impossible to say who'd win, so I declare it a draw. But Ali before his exile was just so quick, had incredible feet, I think Joe would struggle to take him down and I think Ali would win in points. Plus when Ali was 27-28, and 29 (29 if he never got stopped boxing, he was 29 when he fought Quarry but coming back after exile) would have been at his peak, and we never saw that. On the other hand, Joe was 3 months shy of 28 before he got called in WW2.

I'm of the opinion if Ali wasn't banned, he would have beat Joe's 25 title defence's record, but then again Joe was stopped boxing just before he was 28.