How does a prime Tyson shape up against other top HWs?

[bklynboy]

The Tyson who fought Spinks beats any heavyweight in history. I cant see Ali lasting more than 3 rounds against that Tyson.

Take a look at how good Tyson did against James Tillis and Bonecrusher Smith. Yes. Bonecrusher was there to survive. Yes Tyson won just about all the rounds but Tyson looked bad. (Of course it's hard to look good against someone just trying to survive)

Tyson was awesome. Loved him. But in retrospect we see that he didn't develop into a great champion. Maybe if he had to work a few more years and have to take the belt from a prime Holmes or a prime Lewis (mixing dates around to make a point) then -maybe - he would have developed the *will* to fight when things were going badly.

[bklynboy]

Dude, really?

I have seen every fight MT has ever had and loads of Smoke too. Tyson is a better version of both these guys. Ok Joe had more heart, but less speed, power, a less good chin and inferior combo punching. Tyson would do to him what Foreman did.

As for Dempsey. Again, just feel Mike is too powerful and quick. A slug fest that sees the bigger force winning.

Also, Mike would KO Rocky who took far too many shots for my liking. I am a HW historian (moreso then the other divisions), and I can see cases for some besides Ali and Big GF who top Tyson for me. Holmes with his movement and Louis with his diverse skills, but honestly feel in a h2h, Tyson would spark Louis who had a suspect chin.

H2H I would put Tyson above Frazier and Marciano and even with Dempsey. BUT the key here is if Tyson doesn't KTFO in the first six rounds then things change quickly - especially in the championship rounds (13,14 and 15).

[physiker]

Ali easily over Tyson 9 out of 10 times. Prime dancing Ali an easy UD or maybe even late KO.

Foreman KOs Tyson every time.

I see a prime Larry Holmes getting a UD.

All the others, I think a pre-Douglas Tyson would KO or at least UD. Mostly KO. Most of the other champs would be an easy KO for prime Tyson.

He was that fast and powerful. You need either super big and powerful like Foreman or else dancing, jabbing thinking, quick extraordinaire like Ali, and the lesser version--Holmes.

[StarshipTrooper]

H2h lists are impossible. There will always be a scenario where one great fighter beats another. Greatness, in my opinion, should be defined over an entire career. It is still subjective, but not nearly as much.

There's a bit of a terminology gap: Lately when people talk about rating a fighter h2h it seems to me that what they're really referring to is rating them by ability.

Poet

[joseph5620]

I meant at heavyweight.

Do you dispute the fact Spinks and Holmes both had great jabs ?

Holmes was not the same fighter when he fought Tyson and that includes the Holmes jab. And Spinks Jab (especially as a heavyweight) was not comparable to Ali's in any way.

[Barn]

Ali easily over Tyson 9 out of 10 times. Prime dancing Ali an easy UD or maybe even late KO.

Foreman KOs Tyson every time.

I see a prime Larry Holmes getting a UD.

All the others, I think a pre-Douglas Tyson would KO or at least UD. Mostly KO. Most of the other champs would be an easy KO for prime Tyson.

He was that fast and powerful. You need either super big and powerful like Foreman or else dancing, jabbing thinking, quick extraordinaire like Ali, and the lesser version--Holmes.

What are you views on a Liston fight.

I think Liston breaks him in everyway.

[Marchegiano]

IMO Prime Tyson can beat anyone.

[physiker]

What are you views on a Liston fight.

I think Liston breaks him in everyway.

Well Tyson vs other hard punchers like Liston or Frazier sure would be interesting. Some consider Liston a slightly smaller Foreman--in other words a monstrous HW.

RE Liston, we may have to consider two Listons. Pre-Clay and post Clay. Pre-Clay maybe a close fight with Tyson. Winner would depend on who has the better chin, as they will both land bombs. Then, of course, we have the two Tysons--pre- and post-Douglas.

Pre-Clay/Ali Liston vs pre-Douglas Tyson would be a hell of a fight. Probably come down to either better chin or intangibles--like liniment!

In general, I lean towards a pre-Douglas Tyson, but I wouldn't bet much on it, as a Liston bomb could end things quickly.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well Tyson vs other hard punchers like Liston or Frazier sure would be interesting. Some consider Liston a slightly smaller Foreman--in other words a monstrous HW.

RE Liston, we may have to consider two Listons. Pre-Clay and post Clay. Pre-Clay maybe a close fight with Tyson. Winner would depend on who has the better chin, as they will both land bombs. Then, of course, we have the two Tysons--pre- and post-Douglas.

Pre-Clay/Ali Liston vs pre-Douglas Tyson would be a hell of a fight. Probably come down to either better chin or intangibles--like liniment!

In general, I lean towards a pre-Douglas Tyson, but I wouldn't bet much on it, as a Liston bomb could end things quickly.

Stylistic matchups in boxing that are determinative are exceedingly rare.....this happens to be one of them though. Trying to swarm Foreman and Liston (Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing skills) is the equivalent of signing your own death warrent. Tyson was a swarmer pure an simple: It was dictated by his reach and body type. Put him in against Foreman and Liston and he WILL get stopped, do not pass go and do not collect $200.

Poet

[physiker]

It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!