How does a prime Tyson shape up against other top HWs?

[Barn]

It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!

It's also not that simple you can pick up only single fights

[StarshipTrooper]

It's not that simple at all. You have to learn and see what Liston did against the actual opponents who took him the distance or had him in trouble, but didn't finish him. And then-Clay was not the only one who got blinded. One example, Eddie Machen--who was doing well against Liston until he got blinded by the liniment treatment--was NO Mike Tyson. (Machen went the distance, and Liston lost 3 points for hitting him in the nuts.) There were others, who also were not of Tyson's calibre.

Bottom line is Tyson had no chance against Foreman. He had a decent shot vs Liston. The latter could have degenerated into something "special."

A ball bashing, ear biting, liniment-soiled extraordinaire of titans!

And Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.....who was not as good a fighter as Eddie Machen. The point is Machen didn't try and swarm Liston: He was a slick boxer not a swarmer.

I'm very familiar with Liston's career.....in all likelihood more than YOU are. You on the otherhand seem to buy into the myth that Liston was some kind of basketcase just waiting to melt down (hence your use of the term "special"). If anything you've just described Tyson NOT Liston.

My suggestion to you would be to actually study the careers of fighters rather than swallow the silly myths peddled by Bert Sugar.

Poet

[The Surgeon]

Theres not a fighter that ever lived who Tyson wouldnt have had a shot at beating

[StarshipTrooper]

Theres not a fighter that ever lived who Tyson wouldnt have had a shot at beating

I'd give him chance, even if it's an outside chance, against any of the ATG Heavies.....except for Foreman and Liston. As a general rule I believe any ATG Heavy has a chance at beating any other ATG Heavy on any given night unless there's one of those rare prohibitive style matchups in play. Unfortunately for Tyson (and Marciano and Frazier) short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston happens to be one of those rare matchups. Even Cus D'Amato told Tyson that when he was training him.

Poet

[The Surgeon]

I'd give him chance, even if it's an outside chance, against any of the ATG Heavies.....except for Foreman and Liston. As a general rule I believe any ATG Heavy has a chance at beating any other ATG Heavy on any given night unless there's one of those rare prohibitive style matchups in play. Unfortunately for Tyson (and Marciano and Frazier) short-armed swarmers against Foreman and Liston happens to be one of those rare matchups. Even Cus D'Amato told Tyson that when he was training him.

Poet

I think we have had this debate before. If as a Tyson fan there was one fighter id like Mike to swerve it would be Big George, i dont like his odds! But i honestly think he beats Liston, mabey i over rate Tyson - i hear that on these boards quite often but i just call it like i see it. In the most simple breakdown possible i think Tysons speed trumps Listons reach/jab

[StarshipTrooper]

I think we have had this debate before. If as a Tyson fan there was one fighter id like Mike to swerve it would be Big George, i dont like his odds! But i honestly think he beats Liston, mabey i over rate Tyson - i hear that on these boards quite often but i just call it like i see it. In the most simple breakdown possible i think Tysons speed trumps Listons reach/jab

More the case I think you're underrating Liston rather than overrating Tyson. Liston is basically Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing ability.....and very nearly as powerful a puncher as Foreman. Liston also had better stamina but I don't think that's going to come into play here.

Truth is, having Tyson in your top-10 Heavies isn't overrating him. Having him top-3.....now THAT'S overrating him :cool9:

Poet

[SBleeder]

More the case I think you're underrating Liston rather than overrating Tyson. Liston is basically Foreman with a longer reach, better jab, and better boxing ability.....and slightly more powerful of a puncher than Foreman. Liston also had better stamina but I don't think that's going to come into play here.

Truth is, having Tyson in your top-10 Heavies isn't overrating him. Having him top-3.....now THAT'S overrating him :cool9:

Poet

Fixed for you.

[StarshipTrooper]

Fixed for you.

LOL! Naw, I give Foreman the edge in power.....though not by that much :chuckle9:

Poet

[Walt Liquor]

not one vote for big daddy???

[physiker]

And Foreman lost to Jimmy Young.....who was not as good a fighter as Eddie Machen. The point is Machen didn't try and swarm Liston: He was a slick boxer not a swarmer.

I'm very familiar with Liston's career.....in all likelihood more than YOU are. You on the otherhand seem to buy into the myth that Liston was some kind of basketcase just waiting to melt down (hence your use of the term "special"). If anything you've just described Tyson NOT Liston.

My suggestion to you would be to actually study the careers of fighters rather than swallow the silly myths peddled by Bert Sugar.

Poet

I never read Sugar, you must have, as you know what he says.