Vitali Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[Ivich]

Well, Moore and Walcott were two hardest hitters Marciano fought, and both floored him. That was the hardest hitter Rocky meet. Neither hit in Vitaly's class. Vitali fight a few guys around 6 feet tall. The matches were blown outs. All you have to do is bend your keens a bit. Yes I think the size disparity is greatly in Klitschko's favor. Key word here is greatly.

Footwork and ring speed is another issue. If Vitali wanted too, Rocky could not catch up to him. This is a mis match. Now comes the time where someone compares a giant of 80 years ago to a world class super heavyweight. Vitali was never out boxed or lost more than three rounds in any fight. He was utterly dominant on the score cards. More so than any other heavyweight in history.


Rocky's chin will be tested often and early. Likely take out inside of 8 rounds, could be sooner.

Yes Blown OUTS ! Just bend your KEENS!
You know it makes sense!

[Willie Pep 229]

Well, Moore and Walcott were two hardest hitters Marciano fought, and both floored him. That was the hardest hitter Rocky meet. Neither hit in Vitaly's class. Vitali fight a few guys around 6 feet tall. The matches were blown outs. All you have to do is bend your keens a bit. Yes I think the size disparity is greatly in Klitschko's favor. Key word here is greatly.

Footwork and ring speed is another issue. If Vitali wanted too, Rocky could not catch up to him. This is a mis match. Now comes the time where someone compares a giant of 80 years ago to a world class super heavyweight. Vitali was never out boxed or lost more than three rounds in any fight. He was utterly dominant on the score cards. More so than any other heavyweight in history.


Rocky's chin will be tested often and early. Likely take out inside of 8 rounds, could be sooner.

No one actually 'floored' Marciano, that's hyperbole.

Both fighters scored flash knock downs. The Moore KD was half supported by Marciano missing a wide right hand, and he was up on his feet as quick as someone who falls down, not as if he was 'flooded.'

The Walcott's KD was even less impressive.

Do you see Tunney's KD of Dempsey in the 8th round as being as important as Dempsey's KD of Tunney in the 7th round? Of course not.

Even more recently, match Teofimo Lopez going down in the first found against Kambosos as compared to Lopez actually 'flooring' Kambosos later in the fight.

[Dr. Z]

No one actually 'floored' Marciano, that's hyperbole.

Both fighters scored flash knock downs. The Moore KD was half supported by Marciano missing a wide right hand, and he was up on his feet as quick as someone who falls down, not as if he was 'flooded.'

The Walcott's KD was even less impressive.

Do you see Tunney's KD of Dempsey in the 8th round as being as important as Dempsey's KD of Tunney in the 7th round? Of course not.

Even more recently, match Teofimo Lopez going down in the first found against Kambosos as compared to Lopez actually 'flooring' Kambosos later in the fight.

Yes I saw them. Marciano didn't slip, he was floored by a punch twice. Dempsey knockdown of Tunney was more impressive.

[mrbig1]

Brothers, I'm a big Rocky fan, but come on. Vitali, I think is way underrated. Way better than his brother. Rocky was only 189 pounds. I would rate Rocky higher than Vitali on my all-time HW list. Too much of a mismatch.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes I saw them. Marciano didn't slip, he was floored by a punch twice. Dempsey knockdown of Tunney was more impressive.

I didn t say he slipped - I'm saying "'floored" is more dramatic than a flash KD. I expect a fighter to be hurt and at bay for a bit when he is floored.

Tunney literally ran from Dempsey, he got floored. Dempsey jumped up and went right after Tunney.

I know we are just dis*****g word usage - so I guess what I am trying to argue is that no one 'hurt' Marciano, no one put him at bay for even a few seconds. He came off the floor and went right back at Walcott and Moore.

[Ivich]

No one actually 'floored' Marciano, that's hyperbole.

Both fighters scored flash knock downs. The Moore KD was half supported by Marciano missing a wide right hand, and he was up on his feet as quick as someone who falls down, not as if he was 'flooded.'

The Walcott's KD was even less impressive.

Do you see Tunney's KD of Dempsey in the 8th round as being as important as Dempsey's KD of Tunney in the 7th round? Of course not.

Even more recently, match Teofimo Lopez going down in the first found against Kambosos as compared to Lopez actually 'flooring' Kambosos later in the fight.

Marciano said he blacked out for a few seconds against Moore.he got up at 2 ,some say 4 ,expecting a standing count which was waived in championship contests,that's why he headed towards the ropes.
Marciano never backed off when hurt that's absolutely true, even when his own corner got cut solution in his eyes and he fought a couple of rounds with impaired vision.
I'm not sure that's entirely a virtue ,but it was typical of the man.

Walcott walked away after left hooking Rocky to the floor,he assumed any right thinking fighter would take at least an 8 count but Rocky was on his way up at the count of 4 as Jersey Joe turned away from him, big mistake by Walcott. I don't think Rocky was in serious trouble however.
Both were legitimate knock downs let's be clear about that.

Vitali beats Marciano, he had a solid chin ,12 inches of reach on Marciano, was a great judge of distance and would keep this fight where he wanted it.

If Rocky got through his defences ,Vitali would just "claim him," until the referee broke them,

The Ukrainian also had very good power ,not as good as his brother's ,but he was far more durable.
The size differential would be just too much for Rocky to overcome.
Marciano is by far the greater fighter imo, he defended against ranked fighters.not cherry picked WBC patsieslike.Charr,Briggs,Williams,Solis,Sosnowski.

[Ivich]

I didn t say he slipped - I'm saying "'floored" is more dramatic than a flash KD. I expect a fighter to be hurt and at bay for a bit when he is floored.

Tunney literally ran from Dempsey, he got floored. Dempsey jumped up and went right after Tunney.

I know we are just dis*****g word usage - so I guess what I am trying to argue is that no one 'hurt' Marciano, no one put him at bay for even a few seconds. He came off the floor and went right back at Walcott and Moore.

It's interesting that the referee after finally getting Dempsey to go to a neutral corner did not pick up the timekeepers count,but instead began a new count.
Whereas whenTunney floored Dempsey, and Tunney did not go to any corner, the referee began counting immediately Dempsey went down.

[Willie Pep 229]

It's interesting that the referee after finally getting Dempsey to go to a neutral corner did not pick up the timekeepers count,but instead began a new count.
Whereas whenTunney floored Dempsey, and Tunney did not go to any corner, the referee began counting immediately Dempsey went down.

Absolutely!

There is a series of events leading up to the choice of Dave Barry as referee that is telling.

It is complicated but I will keep it short.

Back in 1926 Billy Gibson took 20K from a Phily gangster and signed Tunney's name on the contract supposedly giving the gangster (Bo Bo Hoffman) 20% of all of Tunney's purses.

This contract would be thrown out in court in 1931. That's where it gets complicated. But forget that, here's what's interesting.

In 1927 Tunney's people surfaced Dave Barry as their choice for refree. Dempsey's people didn't trust Barry and said no.

Bo Bo Hoffman suddenly appears in Chicago and levy suit against Tunney (the bogus contract suddenly surfaces) trying to get an injuction stopping the rematch, claiming Tunney owes him 20% of the 1926 fight.

Dempsey's team seeing the writing on the wall capitulate and accept Barry as the referee.

Hoffman drops the law suit and the fight is back on.

Many years later Abe Attell will tell a young reporter (1959) named Ferdie Pacheco --> (paraphrased): 'What people people don't understand about the Dempsey-Tunney fights, is that it was the ***s against the Italians and the ***s won.'

So said Attell.

Bo Bo Hoffman was a ***, Dave Barry was a ***, Monk Eastman was a ***, and the guy behind it all, Arnold Rothstein, was a ***.

Billy Gibson manged several prominent ***ish fighters, Kid Ted Lewis and Benny Leonard.

P.S. Arnold Rothstein, on his death bed in 1929, changed his will, one of the people he added to that will was Billy Gibson. (Not mentioned in his earlier will.) History seems to suggest he didn't know Gibson until 1926.

Rothstein had 100K bet on Tunney for the first fight and bragged he pulled in an easy 400K. Thus the many stories about Dempsey being poisoned at breakfast by a security team member who disappears and is never heard from again. Eh! Who knows.

The story goes that in 1926 Gibson was afraid of the Italian mob in Philadelphia (the Italians had an affection for Dempsey for some reason, including Capone,) and Gibson went to Abe Attell (thus actually Rothstein) and asked for some protection. Attell (Rothstein) introduced Gibson to Hoffman and the bogus contract was sealed.

Or so goes the story.

But no doubt to anyone with eyes, Barry handles the two KDs completely different.

P.S.S. It is the referee's opinion to pick up the time keepers count or not. Technically speaking Barry didn't break any written rules that I know of, but there also wasn't any reason for him not to pick up the count, he could hear it.

[Ivich]

[QUOTE=Willie Pep 229;n31568885]

Absolutely!

There is a series of events leading up to the choice of Dave Barry as referee that is telling.

It is complicated but I will keep it short.

Back in 1926 Billy Gibson took 20K from a Phily gangster and signed Tunney's name on the contract supposedly giving the gangster (Bo Bo Hoffman) 20% of all of Tunney's purses.

This contract would be thrown out in court in 1931. That's where it gets complicated. But forget that, here's what's interesting.

In 1927 Tunney's people surfaced Dave Barry as their choice for refree. Dempsey's people didn't trust Barry and said no.

Bo Bo Hoffman suddenly appears in Chicago and levy suit against Tunney (the bogus contract suddenly surfaces) trying to get an injuction stopping the rematch, claiming Tunney owes him 20% of the 1926 fight.

Dempsey's team seeing the writing on the wall capitulate and accept Barry as the referee.

Hoffman drops the law suit and the fight is back on.

Many years later Abe Attell will tell a young reporter (1959) named Ferdie Pacheco --> (paraphrased): 'What people people don't understand about the Dempsey-Tunney fights, is that it was the ***s against the Italians and the ***s won.'

So said Attell.

Bo Bo Hoffman was a ***, Dave Barry was a ***, Monk Eastman was a ***, and the guy behind it all, Arnold Rothstein, was a ***.

Billy Gibson manged several prominent ***ish fighters, Kid Ted Lewis and Benny Leonard.

P.S. Arnold Rothstein, on his death bed in 1929, changed his will, one of the people he added to that will was Billy Gibson. (Not mentioned in his earlier will.) History seems to suggest he didn't know Gibson until 1926.

Rothstein had 100K bet on Tunney for the first fight and bragged he pulled in an easy 400K. Thus the many stories about Dempsey being poisoned at breakfast by a security team member who disappears and is never heard from again. Eh! Who knows.

The story goes that in 1926 Gibson was afraid of the Italian mob in Philadelphia (the Italians had an affection for Dempsey for some reason, including Capone,) and Gibson went to Abe Attell (thus actually Rothstein) and asked for some protection. Attell (Rothstein) introduced Gibson to Hoffman and the bogus contract was sealed.

Or so goes the story.

But no doubt to anyone with eyes, Barry handles the two KDs completely different.

P.S.S. It is the referee's opinion to pick up the time keepers .



Roger Kahn's Dempsey book ."A Flame Of Pure Fire", goes into some detail about the series of events leading up to the fight.
Kahn believes that when you watch Barry in action in that fight you are watching a corrupt referee.

[The Old LefHook]

Outside of Lewis, was Klit's competition even, better or worse than Rock's?