Did Buster Douglas Really Beat Mike Tyson??

[LondonRingRules]

If you notice when Tyson got knocked out the ref counts at the same speed... kinda slow. It's just how to ref counts, Tyson got the same slow count to get up as Buster did.

** Boxing fans tend to notice only good things their guy does and the bad things the other guy does.

Tyson also rises with the 14 sec mark, just like Buster, yet is given the KO loss, so while given the same count, Mike is not accorded the same result.

Mike was pretty much done at that point, but Buster also plastered him on the break the whole night which greatly assists Buster in his task. Just the 10th round alone, Tyson walks out and lands a big right, they then trade and clinch. Ref goes to break by tapping Buster on the shoulder and starts to seperate, and Buster lands a huge flush right hand before they are 6 inches apart. I've seen fighters DQed for lesser infractions and that happened many times before in the fight.

Tyson knocked down for the first time in a career fight several sec later. Everyone knows now that Page knocked him down the week before the fight in sparring. This is boxing however, and Mike showed up out of shape, on prescription psychiatric drugs, with an unprofessional corner consisting of King's stooges who couldn't even see fit to stock their corner with standard equipment like endswell. The decked was stacked against him as often happens in boxing. Officially he lost, but unofficially he KOed Buster with a shot from his heels and anyone objective knows that as much as they know old Henry Cooper got to Ali that 1st night.

What follows after the loss is pure genius on the part of King. He raises a stink, the stink that was never raised in Tyson's corner during the fight about being blasted on the breaks. King's stink big enough to cover the fact that he is not going to really get Tyson another title fight, but instead milks him against some contenders before setting him up at the Miss Black America pageant where King knew Tyson was going to lose it when Mike was supposed to be training for Holy fight King promised him. Sure enough, thanks to King's BRILLIANT tax attorney defending Tyson in a felony criminal case, he's indicted, convicted, and sent down the river, losing 5 yrs of his prime earning years with King firmly in control of his estate and annuities when Tyson gets out.

I'm sure someone well connected could come up with flood of the big bets placed on Douglas at sucker odds before the fight as well. Follow the money.

Now, I give Buster a lot of credit for his best fight ever. He was a big strong talented fighter with some good experience, but Tyson never really showed up that night. His career as an elite heavy was pretty much over even before once he signed with King who gave him a new corner. Tyson did manage to put together a series against a peak Ruddock that his critics always say he could never win before cooling off at the big house. His incredible reputation kept him in the top 10, usually #1-2 contender when not title holder for another dozen years after the Douglas fight in spite of inconsistant performance and the most bizarre ring behavior of any top fighter I can recall.

Tyson must have been as good as Ali at the very least at his peak. Between the two of them, I've never seen so many nutters go bonkers over these two.

[KILLA RIGHT]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH ****EN EXCUSES.I tought it was a 10 count?not ten seconds.Tyson would of beat buster if he trained hahahahaha.Jordan sugar ray robinson and barry sanders wouldnt be any good if they didn't train thats what makes u a all time great.Tyson ****riders are amazing.He lost no excuses.Buster waited for the 9 he wasnt all ***ed up and just got right up at 9.After that mike became the biggest ***** i had ever seen in the ring

[hardmanbrit]

No, he most certainly did not beat Tyson.

But that is life.

As for Tyson after his four years in prison, how can any athlete be anywhere near as good as they once were after having four years out of boxing and four years devoid of any training?

[Mike Tyson77]

[The Iron Man]

Found a Interesting Doc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8wAhAOZJuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqZpjcEQZm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skEa1JJeDqA

[PeekaBooPooch]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...flashback/kod/
The eighth round opened with Douglas again getting the better of Tyson, but it closed with a sudden, classic Tyson right uppercut that dropped Douglas to the canvas with six seconds left. It was the only time that Douglas got careless, and it nearly cost him his eventual stunning upset. Worse, though, was referee Meyran's shabby handling of the count, which, if promoter Don King has his way, may serve to deprive Douglas of the crown that he rightfully deserves. At the moment Douglas's backside touched the surface of the ring, the knockdown timekeeper began his count. Instead of picking up that cadence, Meyran began his own count, two beats behind.
As generations of felled fighters have done before him, Douglas kept his attention fixed on the referee's hands. As Meyran signaled nine, Douglas rose, but the bell ended the round. If there was any doubt that Douglas was clearheaded and could have risen to his feet on the timekeeper's count, it had been erased right after the knockdown when Douglas pounded his left fist on the mat, in obvious annoyance at his own lapse.
Yet King, who saw his world tour coming to a screeching halt about three continents short of his grand plan, would later seize on the discrepancy in the counts as grounds to bully others into awarding Tyson a victory by knockout.
But King was not willing to allow his investment in the franchise called Mike Tyson to take the hit that inevitably comes from losing a title fight. King summoned officials from two of the major sanctioning bodies, the WBC and WBA, and representatives from the Japan Boxing Commission to a small room off the arena. Emerging two hours later, King called a press conference to announce that tapes of the bout clearly showed that "two knockouts took place, but the first knockout obliterates the second. Buster Douglas was knocked out, and the referee did not do his job and panicked. As the promoter of both fighters, I'm only seeking fair play."
Two hours after that declaration, King again summoned the press. This time, he brought along Meyran, who said, "I don't know why I start my count and make my mistake. Yes, he was down longer than 10 seconds." Also in attendance was the fallen champion. His swollen left eye hidden by dark glasses, he said, "I thought I knocked him out. I thought he was counted out."
Not surprisingly, given the sway he holds over the sport, King's transparent attempts to alter the obvious were persuasive enough for the WBC and WBA to announce that they would suspend recognition of the outcome until further review, which is expected to take place during this coming week. Even as Douglas relaxed in his hotel room with the WBC belt around his waist, the organization's president, Jose Sulaiman, was saying, "I'm very confused." Later, at the second press conference, he was no longer so confused. He said a rematch "was absolutely mandatory." But the damage is pretty much done. All King's men can't put Tyson together again.
Of course, if you want confusion, boxing is, once more, for you. For starters, there is the blabbering of governing bodies whose only apparent purpose is to collect sanctioning fees. Tyson had consolidated all three titles -- WBC, WBA and IBF -- on Aug. 1, 1987, but because the Japan Boxing Commission does not recognize the IBF, no one from that organization was represented in Tokyo. Yet the IBF did sanction the fight, and does not recognize the challenge to Douglas's victory. So at the very least, Douglas now holds the IBF title.

It's really unfair how tyson's belt was taken away from him although he clearly won the bout. If the referee counted right and claimed Tyson as the winner, Tyson would have realized that he almost could have been knocked out (which happened) and would have been more careful in the future. Tyson even claims that his career ended at the buster douglas fight. Maybe it led to his to fallout not only in the ring but outside of it as well.

Ok man,..first of all ,...are you ok?

You're sounding like that fake ***** King!
Just kiddin',...man you know B Douglas beat his ass!!

He went down like a mother****er, ..now dont get me wrong here , i'm a Mike tyson fan , but James did a very good job .

He outboxed him , very well , and i mean , Mike was going through this and that, and James Buster Douglas was too, and James Buster Douglas won , and i think that made him one of the greatest too!
I mean , he did a very good job, ...and all that talk that mike wasnt in shape ,..man thats non sense , if he wasnt in shape he went down in the first couple of rounds,...No man Douglas had a Clear victory!
Bless him , ...i hope he is still healthy!!!

[SABBATH]

King's stink big enough to cover the fact that he is not going to really get Tyson another title fight, but instead milks him against some contenders before setting him up at the Miss Black America pageant where King knew Tyson was going to lose it when Mike was supposed to be training for Holy fight King promised him.

With nonsense conspiracy theories like this it's no wonder your fellow Texans still can't figure out who shot Kennedy in their beloved Lone Star State.

Tyson was signed to fight Holyfield BEFORE he attended the pageant. The deal was completed July 11th a week before the pageant. Tyson wouldn't have been training since the fight was set for November.

Holyfield-Tyson would have been the biggest financial fight in boxing history at that time. Don King was set to make alot of money from the fight as well as regain control of the heavyweight division if Tyson won (Holyfield was promoted by Dan Duva).

After Tyson was indicted, the fight was scheduled to go ahead anyway before Tyson pulled out with a rib injury in October.

Pretty straight forward. You don't need the ****in' Zapruder film for this one Roberta.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ok man,..first of all ,...are you ok?

You're sounding like that fake ***** King!
Just kiddin',...man you know B Douglas beat his ass!!

He went down like a mother****er, ..now dont get me wrong here , i'm a Mike tyson fan , but James did a very good job .

He outboxed him , very well , and i mean , Mike was going through this and that, and James Buster Douglas was too, and James Buster Douglas won , and i think that made him one of the greatest too!
I mean , he did a very good job, ...and all that talk that mike wasnt in shape ,..man thats non sense , if he wasnt in shape he went down in the first couple of rounds,...No man Douglas had a Clear victory!
Bless him , ...i hope he is still healthy!!!

That article certainly sums it up better than I could, and less caustically As far as I'm concerned the refs count is the only one that matters and the timekeeper could be over there playing with his d**k for all I care. In any case the the count should never start until the fighter scoring the knockdown goes to a neutral corner: A fighter should never benifit from his own malfeasence ie. Ali - Liston II.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Holyfield didn't beat a prime Tyson; well, Tyson wasn't fighting a prime Holyfield either so as far as I'm concerned that's a wash. A past prime Holyfield beat a past prime Tyson.

All the apologia over Tyson really boils down to rabid Tyson fans wanting their idol to be better than he really was. Well the real world doesn't work like that. People can boost him to the heavens in their fantasies but reality eventually bites them on the ass.

Poet

[The Iron Man]

I think one thing tyson "nut huggers" need to understand is. That Tyson losing to a fighter doesnt always make him worse! certain styles would not suit him. Like Ali Losing to Frazier doesnt make Ali any worse or Frazier losing to Ali/foreman. In fact there is no shame in losing to another ATG. And this "Rock-Paper-Scissors"(wow i really like that!) effect is what makes boxing soo interesting!

[StarshipTrooper]

I think one thing tyson "nut huggers" need to understand is. That Tyson losing to a fighter doesnt always make him worse! certain styles would not suit him. Like Ali Losing to Frazier doesnt make Ali any worse or Frazier losing to Ali. Infact there is no shame in losing to another ATG. And this "Rock-Paper-Scissors"(wow i really like that!) effect is what makes boxing soo interesting!

Can't argue with your reasoning. Well put!

Poet