In 1993, was there a bigger fight than Lewis vs Bowe?

[JAB5239]

JAB... your poll on this subject is flawed as we do not know the age of those who voted and unto we do a poll cannot be done because anyone under the age of 35yrs old could not have been following boxing at that time.

1993 was a mere 18 years ago so plenty of posters could have and were following boxing at that time.On top of that people can read accounts and come to logical conclusions. It is a FACT that Bowe was derided by the media for not facing Lewis. It is a fact his initial offer (knowing it would be rejected) was a 90/10 split of 32 million dollars. Say what you will about Lewis down the road, but in 1993 after both had won their mini tourney, Bowe ducked Lewis. And at that time, after destroying Ruddock, Lewis was considered Bowe's biggest threat.

[sonnyboyx2]

1993 was a mere 18 years ago so plenty of posters could have and were following boxing at that time.On top of that people can read accounts and come to logical conclusions. It is a FACT that Bowe was derided by the media for not facing Lewis. It is a fact his initial offer (knowing it would be rejected) was a 90/10 split of 32 million dollars. Say what you will about Lewis down the road, but in 1993 after both had won their mini tourney, Bowe ducked Lewis. And at that time, after destroying Ruddock, Lewis was considered Bowe's biggest threat.

Who was offering $32 million because HBO made an offer of $18 million with $15 million to Bowe and $3 million to Lewis which Lewis rejected...18yrs ago is quite some time and add to that the person would need to be 16yrs old or more to be following this sport would mean they had to be 35yrs old at the very minimum... i agree with you 100% in that by throwing the WBC belt into the garbage bin Bowe was ducking Lewis in exactly the same way that 7yrs on Lewis ducked Ruiz & Byrd who was both No1 contenders for Lewis 3 title belts.. in 1993 Lewis was the WBC No1 contender yet was unranked by the WBA & IBF who's belts Rid**** Bowe also owned... Who set up "The Mini Tournement" that the winner of Holyfield vs Bowe would fight the winner of Ruddock vs Lewis because if it was HBO then as i pointed out Lewis priced himself out of the Bowe fight on HBO terms.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...f_a_sales.html

The reason he "priced himself out" was that if the WBC stripped Bowe as they was threatening to do and award Lewis the belt, then Lewis could then demand a 50/50 % purse split of any future fight with Bowe

[CarlosG815]

You keep stating that things are "FACT" but what evidence do you have to prove them as "FACT" absolutely nothing!

Tony Tucker was a recovering junkie who held a version of the Heavyweight title for something like 72 days and was a shot fighter by the time he fought Lewis... here is Eddie Futch view of that fight.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/a...f&pqatl=google

That's a great article. I'm happy that I see the same thing as Futch in watching Lewis, that's comforting that I'm not alone. From visiting this site you'd think everybody thought Lewis was this great fighter. Futch summed him up as I would.

And he called it, Lennox would go on to get licked in just 2 short rounds by a guy who had a little left and would come to fight.

[joseph5620]

1993 was a mere 18 years ago so plenty of posters could have and were following boxing at that time.On top of that people can read accounts and come to logical conclusions. It is a FACT that Bowe was derided by the media for not facing Lewis. It is a fact his initial offer (knowing it would be rejected) was a 90/10 split of 32 million dollars. Say what you will about Lewis down the road, but in 1993 after both had won their mini tourney, Bowe ducked Lewis. And at that time, after destroying Ruddock, Lewis was considered Bowe's biggest threat.

LOL That's what I find funny. I was in high school in 93 and very much following boxing.

[joseph5620]

You keep stating that things are "FACT" but what evidence do you have to prove them as "FACT" absolutely nothing!

Tony Tucker was a recovering junkie who held a version of the Heavyweight title for something like 72 days and was a shot fighter by the time he fought Lewis... here is Eddie Futch view of that fight.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/a...f&pqatl=google

Eddie Futch was Bowe's trainer. What did you expect him to say? It's funny how you keep posting comments from Bowe's side.

[joseph5620]

You keep stating that things are "FACT" but what evidence do you have to prove them as "FACT" absolutely nothing!

Tony Tucker was a recovering junkie who held a version of the Heavyweight title for something like 72 days and was a shot fighter by the time he fought Lewis... here is Eddie Futch view of that fight.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/a...f&pqatl=google

What I find hilarious is that you call Tucker a "a junkie" and go on to praise Dokes who had a well known drug problem and was beyond shot and FAT when Bowe decided to defend his title against him. Your claim Ferguson was better than Tucker or a worthy opponent is beyond ridiculous and doesn't deserve a longer response. Tucker had one loss prior to fighting Lewis(to Tyson) and had never been down as a pro until the Lewis fight. If Tucker was shot he wasn't anywhere near as shot as Dokes was. Tucker had won 14 straight prior to the Lewis fight including a win over Oliver McCall. I've noticed that everybody Lewis beat was "shot" AFTER they lost to Lewis according to you. I've seen you call Holyfield shot in the Lewis fights but listed as a good opponent for Ruiz



Also...please point out anything from Scott's post that isn't factual. This should be good LOL

[sonnyboyx2]

What I find hilarious is that you call Tucker a "a junkie" and go on to praise Dokes who had a well known drug problem and was beyond shot and FAT when Bowe decided to defend his title against him. Your claim Ferguson was better than Tucker or a worthy opponent is beyond ridiculous and doesn't deserve a longer response. Tucker had one loss prior to fighting Lewis(to Tyson) and had never been down as a pro until the Lewis fight. If Tucker was shot he wasn't anywhere near as shot as Dokes was. Tucker had won 14 straight prior to the Lewis fight including a win over Oliver McCall. I've noticed that everybody Lewis beat was "shot" AFTER they lost to Lewis according to you. I've seen you call Holyfield shot in the Lewis fights but listed as a good opponent for Ruiz



Also...please point out anything from Scott's post that isn't factual. This should be good LOL

Who said,"Dokes was not a junkie" because i certainly didn't.. Dokes was on a long winning steak just like Tucker yet Bowe rightly destroyed him in less an 60 seconds of the opening round with Dokes coming in at his lightest weight in 3yrs.... Ferguson got his title fight by beating the No1 contender Ray Mercer yet Ferguson was "Butchered" in Bowes best performance of his entire career claimed Eddie Futch...... Lewis struggled to beat Tucker and then struggled to beat Frank Bruno and was then poleaxed by a sparring-partner journeyman in less than 2rds.... Lewis was the betting favorite to beat Ruddock after Ruddock's brutal beating by Mike Tyson with Ruddock not landing a single punch in the entire fight, Ruddock was booed out of the arena such was the pathetic performance he put up and his record coming into the fight from his last four fights was 2-2

Your comment about Eddie Futch is hilarious, do you feel Futch was "telling lies" which part of his fight analysis of Lewis vs Tucker do you not agree with LOL.

Tuckers win over Oliver McCall is meaningless as Buster Douglas hammered McCall as did Light-Heavyweights Mike Hunter & Orlin Norris before Tucker won a split-decision over him.. who else had Tucker beat in his win streak other than clubfighters & Journeymen?

Holyfield was "Shot" as far back as his 3rd fight with Rid**** Bowe, his victories over Mike Tyson was meaningless as all they proved was that Holyfield has a little bit more left than what Tyson did as Tyson was completely Shot by the 96/97 and was fighting on fear & bravado as his fights with McNeely, Bruno & Seldon proved.. i never claimed he was "A GOOD" opponent for John Ruiz, i claimed Ruiz floored him something Lewis never came near to doing, i also claimed Holyfield although shot` was robbed in his 2nd fight with Lewis a theory i am not alone in thinking because most i have ever spoken too about that fight have the same view as myself.

put up the post of "Scott's you are talking about so that i can answer your question which you feel good about.

[GJC]

This one is still going on, I had my original hip when this thread started!

Who said,"Dokes was not a junkie" because i certainly didn't.. Dokes was on a long winning steak just like Tucker

who else had Tucker beat in his win streak other than clubfighters & Journeymen?

Agree with both these statements but in the interests of balance I would say that Dokes long winning streak was also club fighters & journeymen too. I think if we were grading opponents Tucker and Dokes at that time pretty much mirrored each other.

Ferguson got his title fight by beating the No1 contender Ray Mercer yet Ferguson was "Butchered" in Bowes best performance of his entire career claimed Eddie Futch

My memory of this was that Bowe had a real personal antipathy to Mercer and Mercer (a very credible opponent) was the fighter he wanted but Mercer being Mercer managed to lose to Fergusan. I can only assume that Fergusan was a tune up for Mercer because on the best day Fergusan ever had he was an "opponent". So basically Mercer blew it and Fergusan got himself a shot, it would be a stretch though to call him a credible HW contender.

...... Lewis struggled to beat Tucker and then struggled to beat Frank Bruno and was then poleaxed by a sparring-partner journeyman in less than 2rds.... Lewis was the betting favorite to beat Ruddock after Ruddock's brutal beating by Mike Tyson with Ruddock not landing a single punch in the entire fight, Ruddock was booed out of the arena such was the pathetic performance he put up and his record coming into the fight from his last four fights was 2-2

Ish. To be fair to Ruddock those 2 losses were against a reasonable version of Tyson I agree with you that those Tyson fights took more out of Ruddock than was realised at the time of the Lewis fight but Ruddock was a credible opponent for an eliminator. Lewis was the betting favourite but as I recall the odds were very skinny on either fighter and it was pretty much a pick em fight as far as the bookies were concerned. Maybe "home" advantage tipped the odds to Lewis.

Holyfield was "Shot" as far back as his 3rd fight with Rid**** Bowe, his victories over Mike Tyson was meaningless as all they proved was that Holyfield has a little bit more left than what Tyson did as Tyson was completely Shot by the 96/97 and was fighting on fear & bravado as his fights with McNeely, Bruno & Seldon proved

Lot of people thought Holy was shot after his loss to Moorer which was just after he beat Bowe which is ranked by many as his best win which probably shows that Holy like Mercer can blow hot and cold. Wouldn't agree that Tyson was completely shot but he certainly wasn't the fighter he was pre prison. That said he had just taken 2 titles and for many he was "back" Tyson-Holy were credible fights and good wins for Holyfield.

Think the main problem with this thread is not facts but the way facts are interpreted to be honest which then brings it back to opinion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion though but no one has the monopoly on facts.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=sonnyboyx2;10052778]Who said,"Dokes was not a junkie" because i certainly didn't.. Dokes was on a long winning steak just like Tucker yet Bowe rightly destroyed him in less an 60 seconds of the opening round with Dokes coming in at his lightest weight in 3yrs.... Ferguson got his title fight by beating the No1 contender Ray Mercer yet Ferguson was "Butchered" in Bowes best performance of his entire career claimed Eddie Futch...... Lewis struggled to beat Tucker and then struggled to beat Frank Bruno and was then poleaxed by a sparring-partner journeyman in less than 2rds.... Lewis was the betting favorite to beat Ruddock after Ruddock's brutal beating by Mike Tyson with Ruddock not landing a single punch in the entire fight, Ruddock was booed out of the arena such was the pathetic performance he put up and his record coming into the fight from his last four fights was 2-2Your comment about Eddie Futch is hilarious, do you feel Futch was "telling lies" which part of his fight analysis of Lewis vs Tucker do you not agree with LOL.

Tuckers win over Oliver McCall is meaningless as Buster Douglas hammered McCall as did Light-Heavyweights Mike Hunter & Orlin Norris before Tucker won a split-decision over him.. who else had Tucker beat in his win streak other than clubfighters & Journeymen?

Holyfield was "Shot" as far back as his 3rd fight with Rid**** Bowe, his victories over Mike Tyson was meaningless as all they proved was that Holyfield has a little bit more left than what Tyson did as Tyson was completely Shot by the 96/97 and was fighting on fear & bravado as his fights with McNeely, Bruno & Seldon proved.. i never claimed he was "A GOOD" opponent for John Ruiz, i claimed Ruiz floored him something Lewis never came near to doing, i also claimed Holyfield although shot` was robbed in his 2nd fight with Lewis a theory i am not alone in thinking because most i have ever spoken too about that fight have the same view as myself.

put up the post of "Scott's you are talking about so that i can answer your question which you feel good about.[/QUOTE]








From what I remember Lewis was not the favorite going into the fight with Ruddock(in the US at least) and certainly was not expected to destroy Ruddock in the way he did. You also conveniently left out that Ruddock's two losses were to Tyson who most still considered the best heavyweight in the world at the time. Ruddock showed no signs of being "shot" before the Lewis fight and was seen as a serious threat in the division with Tyson out of the picture. You claiming otherwise or that he was expected to lose the way he did BEFORE the fight is false no matter how you try to spin it.

Dokes was knocked completely unconscious by Ruddock and also was knocked out by Holyfield before that. He was also overweight and had been on the slide for a while. Tucker had never come close to being knocked out at that point. Tucker wasn't what he was but not nearly as shot or undeserving as Dokes.

I said that Scott posted facts and you claimed there was nothing factual to back it. Go back a few post and find it.

[JAB5239]

Who was offering $32 million because HBO made an offer of $18 million with $15 million to Bowe and $3 million to Lewis which Lewis rejected...18yrs ago is quite some time and add to that the person would need to be 16yrs old or more to be following this sport would mean they had to be 35yrs old at the very minimum... i agree with you 100% in that by throwing the WBC belt into the garbage bin Bowe was ducking Lewis in exactly the same way that 7yrs on Lewis ducked Ruiz & Byrd who was both No1 contenders for Lewis 3 title belts.. in 1993 Lewis was the WBC No1 contender yet was unranked by the WBA & IBF who's belts Rid**** Bowe also owned... Who set up "The Mini Tournement" that the winner of Holyfield vs Bowe would fight the winner of Ruddock vs Lewis because if it was HBO then as i pointed out Lewis priced himself out of the Bowe fight on HBO terms.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...f_a_sales.html

The reason he "priced himself out" was that if the WBC stripped Bowe as they was threatening to do and award Lewis the belt, then Lewis could then demand a 50/50 % purse split of any future fight with Bowe

Why is it you continually ignore the 90/10 offer as if it never happened? The bottom line in this thread is EXACTLY what I said it was, that Lewis-Bowe was the biggest fight to be made that year and Bowe ducked it.

As far as your age theory goes my friend.....I've seen you speak authoritatively on Jack Dempsey yet you weren't even born when he was fighting. Why is it ok for us to accept your opinion but not those of others who may or may not have been alive during the period we're talking about now?