Evander Holyfield vs...

[sonnyboyx2]

Jack shouldve fought Greb to prove he could beat someone who is faster and more skilled, like Joe Louis did with Conn. I think Grebs chances of pulling the upset over Jack are a lot higher though.

when Greb got himself in line to fight Dempsey he lost to Gene Tunney... Greb was used in sparring by Dempsey to quicken Dempsey's hand speed just like Amir Khan is used by Manny Pacquiao for that very same reason... if fighters knocked f@ck out of every sparring partner the whole exersize would be pointless, they use different sparring partners to work on different aspects of their game... Joe Frazier used Gypsy Joe Harris a welterweight in his build-up to Fight of the Century and could not put a single glove on Gypsy Joe as the guy was to fast and elusive yet that does not mean he deserved to be fighting Frazier for the Heavyweight title and that be would beat Frazier.

[MR.CHICANITO]

when Greb got himself in line to fight Dempsey he lost to Gene Tunney... Greb was used in sparring by Dempsey to quicken Dempsey's hand speed just like Amir Khan is used by Manny Pacquiao for that very same reason... if fighters knocked f@ck out of every sparring partner the whole exersize would be pointless, they use different sparring partners to work on different aspects of their game... Joe Frazier used Gypsy Joe Harris a welterweight in his build-up to Fight of the Century and could not put a single glove on Gypsy Joe as the guy was to fast and elusive yet that does not mean he deserved to be fighting Frazier for the Heavyweight title and that be would beat Frazier.

I say Evander Holyfield would beat both of them all time greats and both of these fights would be Wars!! There is no way in hell that Holyfield is gonna go down easy to either one of them and if they fough him on the inside then it would be a toss up type of fight, but in my opinion the real deal is just too good for them.

[CarlosG815]

Jack shouldve fought Greb to prove he could beat someone who is faster and more skilled, like Joe Louis did with Conn. I think Grebs chances of pulling the upset over Jack are a lot higher though.

So it would have been acceptable to you in Dempseys comeback fight to face the loser of Tunney/Greb who also happened to be the much smaller man? I'd love to see what you would say about that had that been the history we know today

[JAB5239]

Both was unworthy of a title fight and stood zero chance of winning.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...9220708.2.65.5

Sonny, do you really think Wills was unworthy?

[CarlosG815]

Sonny, do you really think Wills was unworthy?

i know you're not asking me but I do feel he was worthy but it was just the way of the world at the time. It wasn't Dempsey as I'm sure Dempsey would have loved to have fought him. It was a race boundary that Dempsey had no control over.

[JAB5239]

So it would have been acceptable to you in Dempseys comeback fight to face the loser of Tunney/Greb who also happened to be the much smaller man? I'd love to see what you would say about that had that been the history we know today

Dempsey could have fought Greb in 1922 instead of Jimmy Darcy, a fighter Greb had already beaten and after his win over Tunney. Dempsey had already said several times that year he would fight Greb if there was public demand. Dempsey is quoted in the NY times April 12, 1922 issue saying "I am reliably told the public really wants the affair to be brought off, and we would like to see Harry make some money, even if he gets mussed up a bit in doing it, to convince him that the best middleweight isn't heavy enough for the big fellow in the game." There is no reason this fight shouldn't have happened.

[JAB5239]

i know you're not asking me but I do feel he was worthy but it was just the way of the world at the time. It wasn't Dempsey as I'm sure Dempsey would have loved to have fought him. It was a race boundary that Dempsey had no control over.

I've always taken the race issue into account and understand. In his defense Dempsey did sign twice to meet Wills only to have the fight vetoed by the powers that be. I just don't understand Sonny's statement that Wills wasn't worthy. The guy was the number one contender forever. And though I think Dempsey would have beat him, Wills was certainly worth and earned a shot to fight for the title.

[Joeyzagz]

Dempsey could have fought Greb in 1922 instead of Jimmy Darcy, a fighter Greb had already beaten and after his win over Tunney. Dempsey had already said several times that year he would fight Greb if there was public demand. Dempsey is quoted in the NY times April 12, 1922 issue saying "I am reliably told the public really wants the affair to be brought off, and we would like to see Harry make some money, even if he gets mussed up a bit in doing it, to convince him that the best middleweight isn't heavy enough for the big fellow in the game." There is no reason this fight shouldn't have happened.

Excellent posting.

Greb was Light-Heavyweight champion of the world in 1922, shouldve gone down then.

[RubenSonny]

I've always taken the race issue into account and understand. In his defense Dempsey did sign twice to meet Wills only to have the fight vetoed by the powers that be. I just don't understand Sonny's statement that Wills want worthy. The guy was the number one contender forever. And though I think Dempsey would have beat him, Wills was certainly worth and earned a shot to fight for the title.

Like I said earlier their is an argument to be made that Dempsey was willing and fair enough but you should also take into account that he declared he would never fight Wills after Wills attempted to take legal action against the Firpo fight and Greb fought Flowers in those times. To me it appears that Dempsey was reluctant to face Wills, I don't like to use the term duck often since theres always things we won't know about, I'll admit my first comment was a bit silly and this thread shouldn't have got hijacked, but I just think Dempsey should be criticised to some degree. It also appears to me that Dempsey avoided Greb, there is more evidence for that.

[JAB5239]

Like I said earlier their is an argument to be made that Dempsey was willing and fair enough but you should also take into account that he declared he would never fight Wills after Wills attempted to take legal action against the Firpo fight and Greb fought Flowers in those times. To me it appears that Dempsey was reluctant to face Wills, I don't like to use the term duck often since theres always things we won't know about, I'll admit my first comment was a bit silly and this thread shouldn't have got hijacked, but I just think Dempsey should be criticised to some degree. It also appears to me that Dempsey avoided Greb, there is more evidence for that.

Where is it you find Wills takes legal action against Dempsey? I can't find anything except Chicago coliseum vs Dempsey.

As far as Dempsey making any declaration...fighters say all sorts of things. Oscar said he'd never fight Vargas. Tyson said he'd eat Lewis' children and than claimed he could have never beat him. Apollo told Rocky "there ain't gonna be no rematch". The fact is though that Dempsey tried making this fight twice going as far as to sign contracts. I can't ridicule him for that.