Sam Langford said Dempsey was the greatest fighter he ever seen

[Joeyzagz]

The only arguement you are putting out is that Dempsey can't beat an ATG. You gloss over that he beat very good black boxers in sparring with utter ease, fought Tunney in the last fights of his career, and still would have won had it not been for the Long Count, and you seem to ignore that Dempsey beat great Hall of Fame fighters. But I guess they aren't "elite" enough. You call Demspey bad for losing fights at the end of his career. You call Tyson bad for losing at the end of his career. I guess you msut have to call Ali and Louis bad as well. Or Larry Holmes. You can't downgrade a fighter for events that happened at the end of their career. Especially Dempsey, sicne he would have beat the "elite" Tunney. You have to judge prime fightes, it's the only accurate way.

Ali, Louis, and John L. were beaten by opponents from the next era and I do not hold it against them. The reason my criticism is specific to Tyson and Dempsey is because they couldnt beat men from their own era. Tyson had two shots to beat Holyfield and failed, Dempsey had two shots at Tunney and failed.... This is why I can not rank either man in good conscience as a top 5 Heavyweight.

Jack Dempsey: fought from 1914-1927
Gene Tunney: fought from 1915-1928

They are the same size, of the same era, and less than 2 years apart in age. It doesnt get more evenly matched than that!

still would have won had it not been for the Long Count

Gene Tunney was fully alert during the long count and couldve risen after 4 seconds if he wanted to. He deliberately waited on the ref to cool Dempsey off, and returned to knock him down in the 8th round.

[sonnyboyx2]

Ali, Louis, and John L. were beaten by opponents from the next era and I do not hold it against them. The reason my criticism is specific to Tyson and Dempsey is because they couldnt beat men from their own era. Tyson had two shots to beat Holyfield and failed, Dempsey had two shots at Tunney and failed.... This is why I can not rank either man in good conscience as a top 5 Heavyweight.

Jack Dempsey: fought from 1914-1927
Gene Tunney: fought from 1915-1928

They are the same size, of the same era, and less than 2 years apart in age. It doesnt get more evenly matched than that!


Gene Tunney was fully alert during the long count and couldve risen after 4 seconds if he wanted to. He deliberately waited on the ref to cool Dempsey off, and returned to knock him down in the 8th round.

Tyson was a "shot fighter" by the time he fought Holyfield and had never taken a single punch in over 6yrs.. Seldon, Bruno & McNeeley all lay-down rather than fight.. But it is pointless debating with you as you have the opinion that Tyson never "Peaked" unto the Lewis fight.

Dempsey had fought well over 100 fights and was at the tail-end of his 18yr career when losing on points to Tunney who i would take to beat every single heavyweight in history on points with the exception of Muhammad Ali.. yet Tunney himself claimed Dempsey was the greatest fighter who ever lived the night he sat ringside to watch Holmes vs Norton

Why don't you start a thread up : Dempsey vs Lewis or Dempsey vs Calzaghe.

[Kid McCoy]

ol lol lol, you're a fool. Sam langford and his manager Joe Wood sent out an advertisement for Sam to fight any man in the world, with the exception of Jim Jeffries. Learn your boxing before making ****** comments. Or I guess Sam and his manager were lying and just playing when they refused to fight Jeff? Lol, lol, lol.

Sam was still fighting welterweights when Jeff retired. I've no idea why he put out that advertisement as a fight between them was never feasible. A bit like David Haye saying he'll fight anyone except Lennox Lewis.

[sonnyboyx2]

Sam was still fighting welterweights when Jeff retired. I've no idea why he put out that advertisement as a fight between them was never feasible. A bit like David Haye saying he'll fight anyone except Lennox Lewis.

Langford was campaigning against Heavyweights 1905/6

[Kid McCoy]

Jeff had his last fight in 1904. Langford fought his first heavyweight in 1905.

[sonnyboyx2]

Jeff had his last fight in 1904. Langford fought his first heavyweight in 1905.

Jeffries retired from the ring in 1905 because there was not a heavyweight thought good enough to challenge him, Jeffries nominated Marvin Hart & Jack Root to fight to see who succeeded him..

[Kid McCoy]

And a 150lber who'd just started facing heavyweights that year wouldn't have even been on Jeff's radar. Langford made his claim about Jeffries years later when Jeff was retired anyway.

[sonnyboyx2]

And a 150lber who'd just started facing heavyweights that year wouldn't have even been on Jeff's radar. Langford made his claim about Jeffries years later when Jeff was retired anyway.

but you agree he did put out that advert?

[Great John L]

Ali, Louis, and John L. were beaten by opponents from the next era and I do not hold it against them. The reason my criticism is specific to Tyson and Dempsey is because they couldnt beat men from their own era. Tyson had two shots to beat Holyfield and failed, Dempsey had two shots at Tunney and failed.... This is why I can not rank either man in good conscience as a top 5 Heavyweight.

Jack Dempsey: fought from 1914-1927
Gene Tunney: fought from 1915-1928

They are the same size, of the same era, and less than 2 years apart in age. It doesnt get more evenly matched than that!


Gene Tunney was fully alert during the long count and couldve risen after 4 seconds if he wanted to. He deliberately waited on the ref to cool Dempsey off, and returned to knock him down in the 8th round.

The whole "next era" "own era" thing is still unreasonable. You can't hold it against fighters that can't beat people from their own era when they are SHOT and at the end of their careers. Like Dempsey and Tyson. Tunney and Dempsety were NOT an even match. Tunney had been fighting regularly and polishing his skills against the best in the divisions, and still ahd a competitive drive and goal in mind. while Dempsey had been in Hollywood and gone soft. Dempsey did not have any gerat ambition to train, and was sick and vomitting on the train ride to Philly the day of the fight. Tunney was sharp, ready, confiden,t and with desire. Physical attributes may be alike, but the intangibles were not, as such it as not an even fight. If Tunney had risen after four seconds, he wouldn't have had his rest an would be unable to avoid Dempsey. Getting up wouldn't be Gene's problem. His mind wouldn't have recovered in that short a period to get away. Dempsey was one of the all time great finishers and would not have let Tunney get away. Tunney said himself he came to and heard the count at 3, meaning 7 if there was no long count. He would have had only 3 secodns to barely get up if he did. And when he did, he wouldn't be able to escape. Even Tunney was doubtful about his ability to escape from Dempsey had he not had a Long Count break.

[Kid McCoy]

but you agree he did put out that advert?

Yes he did. I just question his motives, just as you question Dempsey's motives for saying the Flynn KO was legitimate. If tomorrow Davis Haye says he'll fight anyone but Mike Tyson, does that mean he's ducking Tyson? Can't duck someone who's retired and Jeff was long retired when Langford made that statement.