Worst one sided beatdown...

[StarshipTrooper]

He was still the champion. I don't see why he should get a pass if he was ignoring deserving challengers in favour of easy money fights against set-ups. Ali's opposition is pretty much unquestionable between Liston I and Frazier III. After that I think he was picking his fights more carefully.

Whether you or I like it (and I don't) is really not the issue. In historical context what Ali did is no different from what aging champions have ALWAYS done (see my post of about cultural expectations as applies to boxing) for good or for ill.

Poet

[Zizou3]

Joe Calzaghe pounding on Jeff Lacy was one hell of a beating.

[sonnyboyx2]

In another interview with Frost Ali said Foreman was his greatest win. Funny he'd think that about such an easy fight. It was in one of those Ali biographies where Pacheco talks about Ali taking a lot of damage in the fight. Certainly I think it was a tougher fight than you're claiming, especially some of those body shots he was absorbing.

Foreman was in a much stronger position to get a fight with Ali than Richard Dunn, Jean-Pierre Coopman or Alfredo Evangelista. Perhaps you can explain why they were more deserving. As for no demand, in his interview with Playboy, Ali says he was offered $7.5m for an immediate rematch by an Indonesian oil man. In his interview with Sports Illustrated (in which he was on the cover calling Ali out) Foreman says there was a $5.5m-$4.5m offer for a rematch, and there were lots of similar big money offers mentioned around that time. Furthermore:

Once again your "Vivid Imagination" has overtaken the actual facts and again you spout accusations with no evidence to back up your claims.. After losing his title to Muhammad Ali in 1974 by KO Foreman took 15 months out of the ring before coming back and facing Ron Lyle, Foreman looked terrible against Lyle and had to climb off the floor 3 times to get the victory, Champion Muhammad Ali had already beaten Ron Lyle 7 months previous without going through the titanic struggle against him which Foreman had too to gain the victory, 6 weeks after the Lyle fight Muhammad Ali beat Joe Bugner over in Kuala Lumpur then at the end of 1975 beat Frazier in `The Thrilla in Manilla` with Ali having those 3 title defences while Foreman was in his 15 months exile. after Foreman beat Lyle in early 1976 he then fought and beat what was left of Joe Frazier gaining a win against his 2nd Muhammad Ali `cast-off`.. Foremen then beat 3 journeymen in his next 3 fights during the next 7 months before facing his 3rd Muhammad Ali cast-off in Jimmy Young whom Ali had beaten 11 months previously. Foreman lost to Young and was moved down the ratings while at the same time as this Ken Norton rightly fought his way to the No1 contender position by beating a string of top contenders in Quarry, Garcia, Kirkman, Stander, Lovell & Larry`hard-luck`Middleton and secured himself a 3rd and deciding fight with Muhammad Ali... Foreman announced his retirement from the sport after losing to Jimmy Young, Foreman was never in a position to challenge Muhammad Ali, his comeback victories was not as impressive or superior to what other contenders Frazier, Norton, Bugner & Young was achieving at that time-period with all of those doing far better against Muhammad Ali in their title fight than what Foreman had against Muhammad Ali... Indonisian oil man's offer or not Foreman was never in a position to challenge Muhammad Ali and Ali always throughout his career "Looked for and accepted the toughest possible opponents" and would never have turned down a 2nd fight with Foreman should Foreman have gotten himself into a challenging position as Muhammad Ali always looked on George Foreman as an "Easy Fight" and proved it as so.

[sonnyboyx2]

Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather, Amir Khan and other world champions often get offers from "Dubai based oil men" to fight certain opponents for huge sums of money over in Dubai with these offers never materializing which does not mean they are "Ducking" that oil mans preffered choice of opponent... you are a good poster and we have had the odd `Set-Too`on varius topics but this time you are wrong with your assumptions that Ali avoided a 2nd fight with Foreman because once the hype is taken away from their fight in Zaire it was an Easy-Fight for Muhammad Ali.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Julio Cesar Chavez vs Hector Camacho, Greg Haugen and Edwin Rosario

Roy Jones vs everybody until Tarver

Hamed vs everybody until Barrera

Toney vs Vassily Jirov

Hopkins vs Glen Johnson

[HaglerSteelChin]

Since we can't count fighters who were past their prime ala SRL vs. Norris, or Willis vs. Sharkey,Louis vs. Marciano, will need to come up with people who took a bad beating before they were shot. Won't count the first Pryor-Arguello fight since not one sided or even the second since people will say Alexis was shot by than, although i would just say pass prime.

Schmeling vs Baer- Schmeling still would have decent wins after this loss.

Hopkins vs Pavlik If anything it should have been Bhop who was past his prime.

Chavez vs. Camacho Camacho never has been knocked out in 88 fights, but nobody could have argued if Ricard Steele had stopped that fight, it think he didn't stop it since he took so much heat for stopping Chavez-Taylor 1 with 2 seconds.

Ali vs Terrell This was a bad beatdown. We all remember Ali playing and taunting Terrell for 15 rds by saying "what's my name?" You can tell he wanted Terrell to go the distance with a severe beatdown.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Julio Cesar Chavez vs Hector Camacho, Greg Haugen

Excellent picks!!

Toney vs Vassily Jirov

Not so excellent. This was a very competitive back and forth fight till the championship rounds.

[kingstip]

duran vs. moore & chavez vs. haugen

[Kid McCoy]

Once again your "Vivid Imagination" has overtaken the actual facts and again you spout accusations with no evidence to back up your claims.. After losing his title to Muhammad Ali in 1974 by KO Foreman took 15 months out of the ring before coming back and facing Ron Lyle, Foreman looked terrible against Lyle and had to climb off the floor 3 times to get the victory, Champion Muhammad Ali had already beaten Ron Lyle 7 months previous without going through the titanic struggle against him which Foreman had too to gain the victory, 6 weeks after the Lyle fight Muhammad Ali beat Joe Bugner over in Kuala Lumpur then at the end of 1975 beat Frazier in `The Thrilla in Manilla` with Ali having those 3 title defences while Foreman was in his 15 months exile. after Foreman beat Lyle in early 1976 he then fought and beat what was left of Joe Frazier gaining a win against his 2nd Muhammad Ali `cast-off`.. Foremen then beat 3 journeymen in his next 3 fights during the next 7 months before facing his 3rd Muhammad Ali cast-off in Jimmy Young whom Ali had beaten 11 months previously. Foreman lost to Young and was moved down the ratings while at the same time as this Ken Norton rightly fought his way to the No1 contender position by beating a string of top contenders in Quarry, Garcia, Kirkman, Stander, Lovell & Larry`hard-luck`Middleton and secured himself a 3rd and deciding fight with Muhammad Ali... Foreman announced his retirement from the sport after losing to Jimmy Young, Foreman was never in a position to challenge Muhammad Ali, his comeback victories was not as impressive or superior to what other contenders Frazier, Norton, Bugner & Young was achieving at that time-period with all of those doing far better against Muhammad Ali in their title fight than what Foreman had against Muhammad Ali... Indonisian oil man's offer or not Foreman was never in a position to challenge Muhammad Ali and Ali always throughout his career "Looked for and accepted the toughest possible opponents" and would never have turned down a 2nd fight with Foreman should Foreman have gotten himself into a challenging position as Muhammad Ali always looked on George Foreman as an "Easy Fight" and proved it as so.

Do you just make things up as you go along? In 1976 Foreman KO'd Frazier and Lyle in half as much time as Ali needed in tough fights with those two. Who else could find wins over Larry Middleton and Ron Stander more impressive? There was enough demand for big money offers to come in for the fight and for the WBC to order Ali to face their #1 contender Foreman after Norton. Claiming Foreman was undeserving when Ali was fighting utterly undeserving challengers like Dunn, Coopman and Evangelista is laughable, but typical of the strange arguments you make.

[Kid McCoy]

Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather, Amir Khan and other world champions often get offers from "Dubai based oil men" to fight certain opponents for huge sums of money over in Dubai with these offers never materializing which does not mean they are "Ducking" that oil mans preffered choice of opponent... you are a good poster and we have had the odd `Set-Too`on varius topics but this time you are wrong with your assumptions that Ali avoided a 2nd fight with Foreman because once the hype is taken away from their fight in Zaire it was an Easy-Fight for Muhammad Ali.

That was just one of many offers and proof that there was enough interest in the fight for such offers to be made. But when the fighter in question opts for lower-paying defences against journeyman fighters, in defiance of demands to face his mandatories, you have to wonder. Similarly, the WBC spent most of 1977 trying to force Ali to fight their new #1 contender Norton and Ali responded that "I'm bigger than boxing" and would not be told who or when to fight.

As I said before, Ali fought everyone there was to face from 64-75. After that I think he was picking his fights carefully and, imo, he was not interested in a Foreman rematch or a 4th Norton fight at that point in his career. Whatever way you spin it, fights with Wepner, Bugner, Young, Lyle, Dunn, Coopman and Evangelista were not bigger or more in demand than a Foreman rematch.