Did Ray Robinson and his Managment avoid all these fighters?

[cotto16]

Charley Doc Williams, Coca Kid, Joe Carter, George Benson, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jack Chase, Bert Lytell, Lloyd Marshall, Billy Smith, Eddie Booker, Shorty Hogue and Archie Moore.

Seems strange ray did not fight one of them! they were all very talented and more than worthy of a fight with robinson so why didnt it happen? robinson was not even backed by the mobsters who run most of the boxing back then, so the fights could of be made if ray and his team wanted them and even on his terms as all the fighters above would of jumped at the chance to fight him

[paulsinghnl]

i know he openly admitted avoiding Charley Burley and Billy Conn.

[JAB5239]

i know he openly admitted avoiding Charley Burley and Billy Conn.

When and at what weight did he admit avoiding Conn? I've never heard that before.

[NChristo]

The only 2 you could make an argument for Robinson avoiding are Cocoa Kid and Charley Burley.

Cocoa Kid was a TBA opponent and when Ray found out it was Cocoa he increased the demand on the fight, Burley same, Ray wanted more money for the fight, wrote a piece on this a while a go and compared Robinsons title record to Burley's record at the time and personally don't think he really deserved a shot even though less deserving people did get one.

Gainford did openly say that he didn't want Robinson fighting Burley as well though and Robinson stated that he was too pretty too fight him.

The rest of them the timing was all wrong.

E.g Booker was a career Middleweight and retired in 44' which was before Robinsons even won the Welterweight title.

Edit: Just read the list of names again, will have to look into if anything happened with Moore, Benton, Doc Williams or Carter.

[paulsinghnl]

When and at what weight did he admit avoiding Conn? I've never heard that before.

lol i was thinking the same thing. i read it somewhere, i forgot where, sorry dude.

but maybe Conn was the person they avoided for the LHW title and fought Maxim? thats my theory.

[Joey Giardello]

Charley Doc Williams, Coca Kid, Joe Carter, George Benson, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jack Chase, Bert Lytell, Lloyd Marshall, Billy Smith, Eddie Booker, Shorty Hogue and Archie Moore.

Seems strange ray did not fight one of them! they were all very talented and more than worthy of a fight with robinson so why didnt it happen? robinson was not even backed by the mobsters who run most of the boxing back then, so the fights could of be made if ray and his team wanted them and even on his terms as all the fighters above would of jumped at the chance to fight him

out of the fighters you name i think burley, booker, coca kid, archie moore and holman williams would all at least beat robinson once in a 3 fight series

[Kid McCoy]

When and at what weight did he admit avoiding Conn? I've never heard that before.

I don't see when Conn-Robinson would have been a feasible fight. Robinson was still a welterweight when Conn was challenging Joe Louis.

Obviously one can go through any boxer's career and pick out a few names they didn't meet, but Robinson's resume is not that of someone avoiding tough fights. Most of these match-ups would not have even been on the radar. Remember Robinson was still campaigning as a lightweight in 1941 and wasn't fighting middleweights on a regular basis until 1945, when Moore, Chase, Marshall, Smith, Charley Williams el at were full-time light-heavies. Booker retired in 1944, when Ray was in the army and hadn't long moved up to welter. There was only a tiny window when that fight could have happened.

Money was usually the reason when Robinson's fights fell through. He knew he was the main draw, and wanted to be paid accordingly. A fight with Moore was proposed when Moore was light-heavyweight champion, but it didn't happen because they couldn't agree on a purse split. A fight with Burley was called off because the promoters wouldn't meet Robinson's eleventh hour demands for more money. His money demands also killed the third Basilio fight, and almost canceled one of the Fullmer bouts.

But to answer the question these fights never happened mostly because they were too big for Ray, and in a few cases it was down to money or just bad timing.

[JAB5239]

lol i was thinking the same thing. i read it somewhere, i forgot where, sorry dude.

but maybe Conn was the person they avoided for the LHW title and fought Maxim? thats my theory.

I don't see when Conn-Robinson would have been a feasible fight. Robinson was still a welterweight when Conn was challenging Joe Louis.

Obviously one can go through any boxer's career and pick out a few names they didn't meet, but Robinson's resume is not that of someone avoiding tough fights. Most of these match-ups would not have even been on the radar. Remember Robinson was still campaigning as a lightweight in 1941 and wasn't fighting middleweights on a regular basis until 1945, when Moore, Chase, Marshall, Smith, Charley Williams el at were full-time light-heavies. Booker retired in 1944, when Ray was in the army and hadn't long moved up to welter. There was only a tiny window when that fight could have happened.

Money was usually the reason when Robinson's fights fell through. He knew he was the main draw, and wanted to be paid accordingly. A fight with Moore was proposed when Moore was light-heavyweight champion, but it didn't happen because they couldn't agree on a purse split. A fight with Burley was called off because the promoters wouldn't meet Robinson's eleventh hour demands for more money. His money demands also killed the third Basilio fight, and almost canceled one of the Fullmer bouts.

But to answer the question these fights never happened mostly because they were too big for Ray, and in a few cases it was down to money or just bad timing.

Yeah, Conn was long gone before Ray moved up, but it would have been an interesting fight at 160. Conn had some pretty good wins at and around that weight though I don't consider it his best.

[BennyST]

Dave Sands too. Ray kept asking for more money than he fought all his other opponent at that time for though. They entered basic negotiations a number of times and each time, Sands' team offering what Ray had been getting for his defences at the time, and Ray always turned them down stating he wanted much more.

I can understand it, but it still sucks.

[Greatest1942]

I don't see when Conn-Robinson would have been a feasible fight. Robinson was still a welterweight when Conn was challenging Joe Louis.

Obviously one can go through any boxer's career and pick out a few names they didn't meet, but Robinson's resume is not that of someone avoiding tough fights. Most of these match-ups would not have even been on the radar. Remember Robinson was still campaigning as a lightweight in 1941 and wasn't fighting middleweights on a regular basis until 1945, when Moore, Chase, Marshall, Smith, Charley Williams el at were full-time light-heavies. Booker retired in 1944, when Ray was in the army and hadn't long moved up to welter. There was only a tiny window when that fight could have happened.

Money was usually the reason when Robinson's fights fell through. He knew he was the main draw, and wanted to be paid accordingly. A fight with Moore was proposed when Moore was light-heavyweight champion, but it didn't happen because they couldn't agree on a purse split. A fight with Burley was called off because the promoters wouldn't meet Robinson's eleventh hour demands for more money. His money demands also killed the third Basilio fight, and almost canceled one of the Fullmer bouts.

But to answer the question these fights never happened mostly because they were too big for Ray, and in a few cases it was down to money or just bad timing.

I will like to point out one thing Kid, in many cases that eleventh hour (almost impossible ) demand of Ray against Burley fight would be attributed as skillful side stepping in some other fighters case. I will like to say that Burley- Robinson is a murky area for sure. Conn, ohh that was never quite a possibility back then.