Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[Toney616]

Schmelling was ordered to deceive the press about what was really occurring in his home country. His celebrity cooperation indirectly led to thousands of ***s being killed, manhandled and shipped out of Germany.

No, that can't be it. He is smiling because he is evil just like Hitler. Im going to ignore all the circumstances and conditions leading up to this moment. Im going to forget all the good things he claimed to have done for ***s to avoid prison, and call a spade a spade. Max is a bastard.

Hitler was a genocidal maniac, and Max Schmeling was his best friend. He has more photos with Max than he does with his own generals. If Max hadnt lost like an inferior *** to Joe Louis they wouldve been BFF's forever.

Exactly. Schmeling is one of my favorite fighters. His life can be taken out of context just as easily as Ali's. Moreso actually seeing as Hitler is the #1 ATG when it comes to evil.

Very consistent posting

[Toney616]

Should be judged as having exactly the same values and not having matured nor been exploited or coerced in his youth?

I think thats a pretty lame perspective.

I never said that or even implied that. The only thing I said about post boxing Ali is that he shouldn't have picked up that award.

[Toney616]

LOL? People have the right to change their names for whatever reason..You're not smart enough to understand that.

He changed his name because he believed it was an offensive slave name, which it wasnt

Just like you're not smart enough to understand that Ali faced racism in the 50's.

Here we go again
JoeyZagz said he faced so much racism that he had no choice but to turn to the nation of Islam for a save haven. Did he face racism back then I'm sure he did, but it was no where on the level to feel that he had to join a loony cult. He joined the nation because he was attracted to their teachings not because he felt his life was in danger. And as I pointed out he never faced anywhere near as much as Frazier and others

The history of the name "Cassias Clay" is irrelevant. But apparently you don't understand simple laws in America. [/I][/B]

Weren't you the one that brought it up?

This self serving "history" you're posting has nothing to do with the topic that you're trying to avoid.

What topic am I trying to avoid

[Toney616]

No you didn't say that.



QUOTE=-Lightsout-;10246678]No and No
As you can see its still in my usertitle and when I get my points up to 8K I will change it back again. Im now ready to discuss Tyson seeing as you have literally run out of thread hijacks

Because the internet exists in America can we then therefore conclude that all Americans are exposed to it in equal amounts?
The answer is of course not
When Ali was at the Olympoics he told a Russian reporter that America is the best country in the world. It has problems but we have qualified people sorting that out. Does that sound like a guy worried about living in a hostile enviroment? He was a optimist and a patriot back then. Just because a country has problems doesn't mean that everyone in that country will be exposed to it in equal amounts. Its a logical fallacy.
Joe Louis and Frazier suffered more than Ali ever would and they were patriots. He chose to join the Nation and that is the end of it. There were other options available to him. The environment argument is a very slippery slope

There were other options avaiable to him, like joining a civil rights movement

lol at your flawed logic
All people no matter what have to accept responsibilites for there actions you cannot blame the environment. The fact that other people in the same position as him chose not to join hurts your argument. Black and whie Americans were shocked when they found out Ali joined that loony group
Floyd Patterson had a much harder upbringing than Ali and he became a civil rights activist.
Joe Louis was from the Deep South and he was a proud American and took part in the Second World War
Joe Frazier was brought up on a plantation in South Carolina and he was a proud American

These guys lived in the same America as Ali did

If pampered middle class Ali wants join a loony group that promises to tell him about secret spaceships that's up to him. But you cannot tell me it was the hostile environment that made him do so.

Where is Archie's Moore's name mentioned here? [/QUOTE]
Think about what I posted. I said he was pampered and he was because when he was asked to do menial jobs at his own camp he refused. You asked me to explain so I did. You will notice I never implied the word had anything to do with race here, you are the one who read that context into it.

[Toney616]

I would if I had them. Unfortunately most of what I know about Schmeling comes from reading biographies over the years rather than from the internet.

Poet

Which one would you recommend

[Toney616]

[/U]
Actually Moore does have a reason to lie. He was fired.



You can "say" what ever you want about Hauser just like I can say what I want about Kram who believes that somehow Frazier supported Ali right to box again for Ali's benefit. Millions of dollars or the fact that Frazier could never be recognized as champ until he beat Ali had nothing to do with that, right? What does this have to do with the laws against Ali in the 50's 60's? Whether the Gold Medal story was true or not(I don't think it is) it doesn't change what Ali faced in the South growing up. You have to be completely ignorant to think Ali or anybody else is lying about that.



How exactly did Ali "treat" Dundee? Ali never fired Dundee but he did fire Moore. Moore's job was to train Ali. Not to have him "doing jobs." The trainer works for the boxer. Ali wasn't working for Moore. I don't know if you realize that or not.

Oh and I'm still waiting for you to show where Ali agreed with Malcolm X sentiments about the Kennedy Assassination.

Malcolm brought additional bad publicity to the Nation when he declared publicly that Pres. John F. Kennedy's assassination was an example of “chickens coming home to roost”—a violent society suffering the consequences of violence. In response to the outrage this statement provoked, Elijah Muhammad ordered Malcolm to observe a 90-day period of silence, and the break between the two leaders became permanent.

http://www.biography.com/articles/Ma...9396195?part=1
Elijah told all of his ministers NOT to comment on the death of JFK, Malcolm went against his wishes by doing so. In other words he did it in spite of being a Black ******, instead of because he was a black ******, you see the difference?

[Toney616]

Actually Moore does have a reason to lie. He was fired.

If you read the Hauser biography Moore says that if Ali listened to what he was trying to teach him he wouldn't of had to take so much punishment during the second half of his career. Look how things turned out

You can "say" what ever you want about Hauser just like I can say what I want about Kram who believes that somehow Frazier supported Ali right to box again for Ali's benefit. Millions of dollars or the fact that Frazier could never be recognized as champ until he beat Ali had nothing to do with that, right?

Ali had no right to do what he did to Frazier. He could of hyped up that fight without putting Frazier's life in danger. Surely you can see that?

What does this have to do with the laws against Ali in the 50's 60's?

You've lost me on this one. What post are you referring to?

Whether the Gold Medal story was true or not(I don't think it is) it doesn't change what Ali faced in the South growing up. You have to be completely ignorant to think Ali or anybody else is lying about that.

If he had it that bad, don't you think its strange that he has to start MAKING up stories? His dad said the racism in his town was much more sneakier than in other places. Do you think someone like Joe Frazier or Malcolm X would use the word sneaky to describe what they went through as kids?

How exactly did Ali "treat" Dundee? Ali never fired Dundee but he did fire Moore. Moore's job was to train Ali. Not to have him "doing jobs." The trainer works for the boxer. Ali wasn't working for Moore. I don't know if you realize that or not.

There were quite a few public workouts were Ali would tell Dundee to shut up or insist on leaning against the ropes and taking punishment with Dundee screaming at him to stop doing that. Other times reporters would comment that Dundee would ask Ali to do something with Ali making a point of doing something else.

Oh and I'm still waiting for you to show where Ali agreed with Malcolm X sentiments about the Kennedy Assassination.

I answered it already, but I will do it again:

Malcolm brought additional bad publicity to the Nation when he declared publicly that Pres. John F. Kennedy's assassination was an example of “chickens coming home to roost”—a violent society suffering the consequences of violence. In response to the outrage this statement provoked, Elijah Muhammad ordered Malcolm to observe a 90-day period of silence, and the break between the two leaders became permanent.

http://www.biography.com/articles/Ma...9396195?part=1
Elijah told all of his ministers NOT to comment on the death of JFK, Malcolm went against his wishes by doing so. In other words he did it in spite of being a Black ******, instead of because he was a black ******, you see the difference?

[Toney616]

You posted a video of Ali attending a klan rally and just left it that. After about 6 hours of no one getting outraged you whined:

lol
Forza didn't believe it was true, so I posted it up. That was pretty much the end of it. 5 months later it gets bumped up. If you read my response to D33p I said I'm done with this thread, until I noticed you here trolling, trying to get back at me for all the times I beat you in arguments in other threads. It is you that has helped to keep this thread alive.,
The thread has now: 168 replies and 3,913 views

This whole thread is just a failed smear campaign against Ali, with no particular direction in mind.

As long as I never lied about anything or took anything he said out of context, then how can it be classed as a smear campaign?

Did he brag about going to a KKK rally? Yes, he did.
Was it wrong for him to do so? Yes, it was.
Does he deserve to pick up awards for Civil rights work? No

It is you that's insisted on bringing up: Tyson, Hitler, Schmeling, Olympics and the persecution of the ***s. If you didn't agree with the thread you should of just stayed clear of it

No one here cares that Ali attended a Klan meeting,

This is the history section, where people here care about somethings and not others. For a guy who doesn't care you sure have posted a lot of posts here

just like no one cares that Schmeling was having ****tails with Adolf Hitler.

Back to talking about Schmeling again?

[Toney616]

[U]
So in other words every black person in America during the 40's, 50's and 60's loved America since they didn't "just leave it?". As if it's that simple lol.

Ali would of been a multimillionaire back then, so I think his situation would of been a bit different don't you think?

And you call Ali a "gullible buffoon?" This has to be most historically ignorant post I've ever read here. And that's saying something.

The part of that book that stuck most in my mind was the way he allowed his entourage to rip him off and get him involved in all kind of scams which must of cost him millions of dollars. And after all of that he would still let them back into he group where they would continue that same crap. He allowed his entourage to keep him fighting, Pacheco had enough and walked after the Shavers fight. He had to keep fighting to feed his entourage (Herbert took 50% of his purses) and for his love of short term fame. Doesn't that sound like something a gullible buffoon would do?

In response to your predictable links, Frazier once called Ali a "half breed." Would never call him by his legal name.

What other choice did Frazier have, seeing as how Ali was constantly attacking him for being a Race Traitor,Dark skinned and ugly? He was constantly getting death threats and his kids were getting bullied at school, what else could Frazier do?

Also, Malcolm X,

Why are you so obsessed with Malcolm X BEFORE he left the Nation? You notice I talk about him AFTERhe left it. And if my memory serves me correctly, I only brought up the name Malcolm X due to the role "Saint Ali" played in his death.

Floyd Patterson,

Patterson called him Clay and referred to the ******s as a hate group and compared them to the KKK (very accurate comparison in hindsight)

and some of your other heroes said many things that you conveniently leave out of your post.

Like what?

[Toney616]

As dedicated follower of the Nation of Islam he would of felt the exact same way. He even went a step further and called for the death of Malcolm X, Leon 4xAmeer and mixed race couples. He even placed Fraziers life in danger when he tried to portray him to the world as a race traitor

More than you obviously. And no Ali did not feel the exact same way regarding President Kennedy. Ali liked Kennedy and publicly critisized Malcolm X for his comments. You are dead wrong about that and it's not the first time.

you think so?
Even the Nation distanced itself from Malcolm for saying that, it was what led to Malcolm X's suspension from the Nation of Islam. Malcolm said that stuff off his own back, Not because he was a member of the Nation of Islam.
So look whose wrong now

And BTW, It was Malcolm X who publicly called King, Thurgood Marshall, and Jackie Robinson "Uncle Toms." It was Malcolm X who claimed "the chickens have come home to roost" immediately after knowing Kennedy had been assassinated. Not Ali

Looks like you are still wrong. Contradicting yourself much? lol

Why do you keep doing this? It was you that brought up JFK and I pointed out to you that, that was Malcolm X acting against the wishes of the NOI. So why are you still going on about it? Why are you talking about Thurgood Marshall and Jackie Robinson?

Perhaps even more disturbing is the stunning cruelty Ali showed to other blacks, whom he labeled as stooges of the white establishment if they dared to disagree with him.

The great Joe Louis, who arguably did more for civil rights than Jackie Robinson? An Uncle Tom, after he dared to criticize Ali’s hate speech.

Floyd Patterson, a gentle soul and social activist who, like Louis, demurred from the Ali line? An Uncle Tom, whom Ali swore he would beat mercilessly to stop him from ‘acting white.’

Joe Frazier, from the heart of black America, who befriended an Ali beleaguered by an admittedly unjust suspension? An Uncle Tom, a gorilla, ignorant, and ugly; insults drenched with racist history which he would constantly repeat to a rapturous audience of mostly white reporters.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...il-rights-hero

In February, 1967, Ali's opponent was Ernie Terrel. At the pre-fight press conferences Terrel repeatedly called Ali by his given name: Cassius Clay. Ali promised to beat Terrel until he addressed him properly.21 In a fight which Sports Illustrated described as "a wonderful demonstration of boxing skill and a barbarous display of cruelty," Ali beat Terrel while shouting, "What's my name, 'Uncle Tom,' what's my name?

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/tom/
You think he would of had anything nice to say about King?

The nation were so against the Civil Rights movement that they would form a pact with the Klan and other white power groups

1962:

Malcolm X would talk of how they had intensive ties back in supremacist groups in 1964. Seeing as how Ali was visited the Klan around 1975. I would say that was at least a 13 year relationship with such groups. That's how much the NOI were against the Civil rights movement. Do you really think he would of had anything nice to say about King as a faithful member of the NOI?

In the 1950s the emergence of the Civil Rights Movement resulted in a revival in Ku Klux Klan organizations. The most of important of these was the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan led by Robert Shelton. In the Deep South considerable pressure was put on blacks by klansmen not to vote. An example of this was the state of Mississippi. By 1960, 42% of the population were black but only 2% were registered to vote. Lynching was still employed as a method of terrorizing the local black population.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAkkk.htm