Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[Toney616]

You have a convicted rapist's nickname in your sig. A guy who threatened to sodomize a white man, and eat another mans unborn children .

I am a fan of Tyson The Fighter from 1986-1991. I am not a fan of Tyson the man, or fighter post prison. And you will never find me trying to justify any of his nonsense.

So forgive me if I find your Ali criticism mild and pointless.

The Nation of Islam cut a deal with the Klan, it was basically arranged around their common mutual interests.

-Antisemitism
-Pro segregation
-Anti Civil Rights

The deal they arranged was based on their mutual agenda to dis rail the civil rights movement, in return the Klan would leave their temples and members in the South alone. As acts of good will they would send members to talk at each others meetings. Ali's speech was one of them. So you end up with the situation of a man who helped bring this about being paraded around today as though he was some kind of saint. Are you going to try and equate Tyson's loony rant, which ended up with no ones life being hurt or derailed, with a pact that more that likely brought about a lot of human suffering?
These were the people that Ali chose to associate with:

Ku Klux Klan Anti Civil Rights Involvement
KKK adherents were responsible for acts such as the 1963 bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, in which four young African–American girls were killed and many others injured, and the 1964 murder of civil rights workers Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, and James Chaney, in Mississippi. The Klan was also responsible for many other beatings, murders, and bombings, including attacks on the Freedom Riders, who sought to integrate interstate buses.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/8016/Ku-K...volvement.html
His image has been so sanitized that he is know being awarded awards for his civil rights work
Muhammad Ali and the Myth Of a Civil Rights Hero
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...il-rights-hero

There were two Ali's just like their were two Malcolm X's. Look what happened to Malcolm X when he embraced his unity/loving side? He got whacked by Elijah Muhammad.

There's much more to the Malcolm X story than that. He was marked for death before he even went to Mecca. He wanted to return to the Nation but they wouldn't let him there were too many people in the organization who was jealous of Malcolm X's position and convinced Elijah to keep him out. As a ****** he wanted to visit Mecca which he did, but it wasn't really there that he found racial harmony. How could he, in a country which was still involved in slavery until 1975. He changed his views so he could start to work with other civil rights groups who before saw him as too militant. The nation feared he would attract their members so they decided to push there plans forward to assassinate him.Malcolm X's wife pleaded with Ali to stop it, but he refused

I think its no coincidence that Ali started to mellow out when Elijah finally kicked the bucket. His relationship with ELijah was similar to Schmelling's time with Hitler and the **** party.

He mellowed out because Wallace D Muhammad took over after his fathers death and decided to move the nation towards Sunni Islam. Ali himself would admit that he found the change hard and wouldn't fully accept it until around 1983.

Was it ****** for Ali to join a cult like the NOI in the first place? Yes. But once your in you either carry their message or have your house firebombed.

They didn't firebomb his house
Also many members of the Nation of Islam would leave the group and suffer no consequences. Ali never wanted to leave it anyway

The TV hosts and interviewers all thought Ali was a nice guy behind the scenes.

So what he did was OK, because he was nice to TV hosts?

[Joeyzagz]

His public rejection of Malcolm X indirectly lead to Malcolm X's death and his public rejection of Leon 4XAmeer directly lead to his death. What did Schmelling ever do that was equivalent to that?

Schmelling was ordered to deceive the press about what was really occurring in his home country. His celebrity cooperation indirectly led to thousands of ***s being killed, manhandled and shipped out of Germany. Im not sure how you can compare a small American cult leader to the most dangerous figure of the 20th century.


I dont see Schmelling and Ali as bad guys because I understand they were under the constant threat of death and violence. They were both chosen by powerful men to be the ambassadors of an evil regime. Tools, pawns.

As an individual I find Tyson far more deplorable. Tyson beat up elderly women and stole their purses. He has admitted that he has done far worse things than what he went to jail for! I dont even want to imagine...

[Toney616]

Schmelling was ordered to deceive the press about what was really occurring in his home country. His celebrity cooperation indirectly led to thousands of ***s being killed, manhandled and shipped out of Germany. Im not sure how you can compare a small American cult leader to the most dangerous figure of the 20th century.

Care to explain how exactly?

I dont see Schmelling and Ali as bad guys because I understand they were under the constant threat of death and violence. They were both chosen by powerful men to be the ambassadors of an evil regime. Tools, pawns.

If you disagree with a situation you can either chose to fight it or move away from it. If following your logic Ali chose to do neither than he really shouldnt be looked on as a hero at all then should he?

As an individual I find Tyson far more deplorable. Tyson beat up elderly women and stole their purses. He has admitted that he has done far worse things than what he went to jail for! I dont even want to imagine...

You are trying to compare the actions of a 13-14 year old child to the actions of a full grown man and you can't do that. What they both did isnt even comparable either. After his win over Liston Ali was actually in a position to at least try and save his friends life. The Nation needed him more than they needed him. All of those death threats and firebombs wouldnt come about until much later. He turned his back on his friend because he was offered a Arabic name. You are also conveniately overlooking the fact that many members left the Nation of Islam to side with Malcolm they also feared for their lives but they did because they thought it was the right thing to do.

[joseph5620]

Care to explain how exactly?

If you disagree with a situation you can either chose to fight it or move away from it. If following your logic Ali chose to do neither than he really shouldnt be looked on as a hero at all then should he?

You are trying to compare the actions of a 13-14 year old child to the actions of a full grown man and you can't do that. What they both did isnt even comparable either. After his win over Liston Ali was actually in a position to at least try and save his friends life. The Nation needed him more than they needed him. All of those death threats and firebombs wouldnt come about until much later. He turned his back on his friend because he was offered a Arabic name. You are also conveniately overlooking the fact that many members left the Nation of Islam to side with Malcolm they also feared for their lives but they did because they thought it was the right thing to do.

Lets not pretend that Tyson committed all of his bad acts at 13-14. I don't recall Ali committing any criminal acts against people like Tyson has. Ali can say what he want's and it shouldn't affect your life.The bottom line is that you can dig up dirt on just about anybody in history. My philosophy is why should you give a ****? These are boxers we're taking about. Not politicians or world leaders. I watch them and admire them for their talents. What they and do outside the ring shouldn't have any impact on anybody here. If people want to view Ali as a hero so what? He was/is for a lot of people. I personally think some of our US presidents were/are bad people but that doesn't stop others from looking at them as heroes and that's their right.




The era we live in now is much different from the 60's and 70's. The whole tone of the country was different regarding race relations. Even some of the laws we're race related. Using Ali's attitude from that period in context to the current times is wrong.

[Joeyzagz]

Schmelling was ordered to deceive the press about what was really occurring in his home country. His celebrity cooperation indirectly led to thousands of ***s being killed, manhandled and shipped out of Germany. Im not sure how you can compare a small American cult leader to the most dangerous figure of the 20th century.

Care to explain how exactly?

Max played a vital roll in Hitler's slow creep to Devilgod by helping deliver the 1936 Olympics to **** Germany. The United States were going to boycott the games altogether, but Max assured the US Olympic committee that reports of executions, and political unrest were false and that "Hitler could be trusted." This is deception of the highest order.

If you disagree with a situation you can either chose to fight it or move away from it. If following your logic Ali chose to do neither than he really shouldnt be looked on as a hero at all then should he?

Watch the first 40 seconds of the video below. This guy explains exactly what Schmelling and ALi were up against.

Ali/Schmelling were too big to simply move away, They werent exactly regular civilians. Easy target. If you want to criticize them, criticize them for not having a Deathwish like Malcolm X. They are sportsmen not martyrs.

[Toney616]

[B][I]Lets not pretend that Tyson committed all of his bad acts at 13-14. I don't recall Ali committing any criminal acts against people like Tyson has.

I never tried to justify any of the sick acts that Tyson was involved in, neither does any of Tyson's sick acts play any consequence in what this thread is about.

I am a fan of Tyson The Fighter from 1986-1991. I am not a fan of Tyson the man, or fighter post prison. And you will never find me trying to justify any of his nonsense.

Ali joined a cult group which was anti civil rights, which even went as far as forming a pact with groups like the Klan which were trying to violently suppress the movement. Ali fans unable to accept the fact that their hero's accomplishments start and end in the ring have twisted history and made him out to be some kind of civil rights hero. Ali being the honest man he is has happily gone along with it. So we now have the situation where a man who was anti civil rights to the point were he was willing to associate with the Klan is now being portrayed as some kind of civil rights activist and even picking up awards for it.

Ali can say what he want's and it shouldn't affect your life.The bottom line is that you can dig up dirt on just about anybody in history.

He is entitled to say whatever he wants as long as he is willing to accept responsibility for his words

Germany awards Muhammad Ali for civil rights work
Date: Saturday Dec. 17, 2005 3:41 PM ET

BERLIN — Muhammad Ali is being honored with a prestigious German peace prize for his work with in the civil rights movement and for the United Nations.

Ali, 63, is being awarded the Otto Hahn peace medal for his "lifelong engagement in the American civil rights movement and the global cultural emancipation of blacks, as well as his work as a U.N. Goodwill ambassador," the organization said.

Its an insult to all of the memories of the people involved in the civil rights struggle for him to actually pick that award up

[lazy]

I am a fan of Tyson The Fighter from 1986-1991. I am not a fan of Tyson the man, or fighter post prison. And you will never find me trying to justify any of his nonsense.

The Nation of Islam cut a deal with the Klan, it was basically arranged around their common mutual interests.

-Antisemitism
-Pro segregation
-Anti Civil Rights

The deal they arranged was based on their mutual agenda to dis rail the civil rights movement, in return the Klan would leave their temples and members in the South alone. As acts of good will they would send members to talk at each others meetings. Ali's speech was one of them. So you end up with the situation of a man who helped bring this about being paraded around today as though he was some kind of saint. Are you going to try and equate Tyson's loony rant, which ended up with no ones life being hurt or derailed, with a pact that more that likely brought about a lot of human suffering?
These were the people that Ali chose to associate with:

I never knew this.

[Toney616]

Max played a vital roll in Hitler's slow creep to Devilgod by helping deliver the 1936 Olympics to **** Germany. The United States were going to boycott the games altogether but Max assured the US Olympic committee that reports of executions, and political unrest were false and that "Hitler could be trusted." This is deception of the highest order.

Hitler would of been in power for around three years by the time of the Olympics. And whether the Americans boycotted the Olympics or not would not of changed anything.. Or are you trying to argue that World War II never would of happened if a German fighter told America not to send their athletes to the Olympics in Germany?

And lets not act like the Americans did not know what was going over there either.

During the '36 Olympics Max Schmeling exacted a promise from Hitler that all U.S. athletes would be protected. On several occasions Hitler tried to cajole the respected boxer into joining the **** Party, but Schmeling vigorously refused ever to join the **** party or to publicize the **** propaganda line.

http://www.auschwitz.dk/schmeling.htm

Watch the first 40 seconds of the video below. This guy explains exactly what Schmelling and ALi were up against.

Ali/Schmelling were too big to simply move away, They werent exactly regular civilians. Easy target. If you want to criticize them, criticize them for not having a Death wish like Malcolm X. They are sportsmen not martyrs.

In an article, published in History Today, two professors at the University of Rhode Island, Robert Wiesbord and Norbert Heterich, tell how Schmeling agreed to hide the two teenage sons of a ***ish friend of his, David Lewin, during the awful time of Krystallnacht, November 1938 when **** pogroms against the ***s reached new heights.

http://www.auschwitz.dk/schmeling.htm
He was prepared to risk his own life to save the lives of two ***ish boys, not to mention the fact that he refused to join the **** party

And as I said before Ali life was not in danger when he turned his back on Malcolm X, secretly he kept in contact with him but when Elijah offered him a Arabic name in return for cutting all ties with Malcolm X he accepted it and started to call for Malcolm X's death.

[Toney616]

I never knew this.

They were practically mirror images of each other.

[Joeyzagz]

This is the video I wanted to post. You can substitute the name Schmelling with Ali and it explains exactly what he/they were going through. First 40 seconds.

Hitler would of been in power for around three years by the time of the Olympics. And whether the Americans boycotted the Olympics or not would not of changed anything.. Or are you trying to argue that World War II never would of happened if a German fighter told America not to hold the Olympics in Germany?

When did I ever mention world war II or claim that Hitler wasn't in power in 1936? The ****'s were carrying out horrible crimes in 1936 and Max helped sweep them under the rug.

The United States were against Hitler's Olympics because they didnt want to dignify **** Germany as a respectable nation. Schmelling went to the Olympic committee for the sole purpose of deceiving them. His own acquaintances were being removed and executed in the streets of Germany, yet Schmelling still lied about what was going on.

Hitler knew Schmelling would be more valuable to the ****'s as non-party guy. He was the clean front that Americans could trust.