Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[Joeyzagz]

Wide eyed 22 year old is approached by a millionaire black(How many millionaire blacks existed in the 60's?) , to become Muhammad Ali.

Thats not even remotely how it happened. Elijah wanted nothing to do with him until he became the hw champion of the world then he realised that he could use his positon to encourage the enrollment of other blacks.

He was already heavyweight champion at 22. I dont see what your disagreement is with that post. He was hooked by the charismatic Malcolm 3 years prior, and snatched up by the evil Elijah after he won the championship. We know the story.

COME ON, GIL! I gotsta hear your theory about Ali's supreme plan.

^^Me too. Im not a fan of Ali but I recognize there was the man, the movement and the hostile era both existed in. You dont have to be Noam Chomsky to distinguish between the nuances.

IronMike. has decided to not make any distinctions, and thats totally his choice.

[Toney616]

So they still stripped him of the title and his license and passport. He had no fights in his PRIME. The time when he could have earned the largest amount of cash. When he could have been even greater and had some great defenses.

The draft board had started to chase him around the time of the first Liston first, that was when Ali had originally applied for an exception claiming that it would cause financial hardship to his family. That plea was rejected so he entered another plea claiming exception due to his religious beliefs, that plea was at first accepted but later overturned. So he would enter another plea claiming exception due to his religious beliefs and would also claim to be a conscientious objector.

The government was desperate to make a deal with because:
1: They had to make him go other wise it would undermine their efforts to get other young man to go and fight

2: After the death of Martin Luther King and the riots that issued they didn't want to send a popular black figure to prison

That was why it was constantly offering him all kinds of deals to the point where he wouldn't even have to see a gun. He would take part in exhibition matches to entertain the troops and even be able to keep his title.

According to a member of the prosecution that was the deal that was practically going to be accepted. Ali's lawyers would say that Elijah told Ali that under no conditions could he go and fight. "We don't want this, but you have to understand we are not dealing with reasonable people," is what Ali's lawyer would later say. No nation member could go and fight in any war for the Devils. Elijah had refused to fight during World War II and even served time. So it wasn't like he was telling Ali to do something he hadn't done himself.
Hence:

“Elijah Muhammad told me,” Ali said, “that I can’t go.”

Ray said: “You won’t see a gun. Box some exhibitions. It’ll be a
snap. If you don’t, they’ll send you to jail, pick up your license. You
want to blow up your career, all you have, for nothing.”

“Well,” Ali said, “Elijah Muhammad told me.”

“Forget the old man,” Ray said, annoyed now. “Is Elijah going to
go to jail, and all those other ******s?”

“But I’m afraid, Ray, I’m really afraid.”

“Afraid of what? Of the ******s if you don’t do what they told
you?”

Sugar pressed for an answer; he never got one.

Years later he recalled: “He never answered. The kid was terrified. I left him with tears in his eyes. If you ask me, he wasn’t afraid of jail. He was scared of being killed by the ******s. But I don’t know for sure.”

Mark Kram's Ghost of Manila p.42.

So pray tell why did he join the Nation if he wasn't suckered in and exploited?

Do you believe he had some grand plan?

If so please expand, I'm sure it'll be entertaining.

How was he suckered in? He joined because he wanted to join them. How many sane people would believe that the world was going to end around 1971 and only the members of a certain religious group would be saved because a spaceship was going come down and save them? How can you sucker a person in with that crap?

[Toney616]

He was already heavyweight champion at 22. I don't see what your disagreement is with that post. He was hooked by the charismatic Malcolm 3 years prior, and snatched up by the evil Elijah after he won the championship. We know the story.

He first came across the Black ******s when he was in the Amateurs and early in his pro career he had secretly started to attend, which in turn would put him into contact with Malcolm X. Even though he attended meetings Elijah wanted nothing to do with him. He was a foolish fighter involved in a ****** sport, a ****** only in his own mind. During the lead up to the first Liston fight, all nation members were banned from going to the fight. Malcolm during this time was on his 90 days suspension asked Elijah if he could go. Elijah told him he could go but he was representing himself and not the ******s. Malcolm at this point was still hoping he would be accepted back into the group.

After he won Elijah realized the gem that fate had placed in his possession and offered to make him a official ****** and the only condition is that he had to have nothing more to do with Malcolm X
He joined because he wanted to join and technically he was already a member anyway
The day before Malcolm X's funeral:
Go to 9:58

The day before the funeral of his former friend, look how happy he is

[Toney616]

And? Where does that say anything about Ali remaining with the Nation of Islam? Sunni Islam is not in any way affiliated with the Nation of Islam.His wife(Lonnie) says he he left the NOI and their are numerous facts that support it. That's good enough for me.

Go to 1:50-3:50

After the death of Elijah Muhammad control of the nation would be passed to his son, W. Deen Mohammed. Who would then realign the group to be more in line with the teachings of Sunni Islam. in 1978 Farrakhan would break away to form his own Nation of Islam

Disappointed that he was not named Elijah's successor, Farrakhan led a breakaway group in 1978, which he also called the Nation of Islam and which preserved the original teachings of Elijah Muhammad. Farrakhan disagreed with Wallace Muhammad's attempts to move the Nation to orthodox Sunni Islam and to rid it of Elijah Muhammad's radical black nationalism and separatist teachings, which stressed the inherent wickedness of whites.

http://www.biography.com/articles/Lo...rakhan-9291850

[SIZE="4"]Ali became a Sunni ****** in 1975

Which is because of W.D.Muhammad changing the nations beliefs to fit in more with Sunni Islam. The Nation changed and he changed with it.
If you want to say he changed his religious views, fine, but you cannot say he left the group.

[Toney616]

Sacrificed his career, passport, and millions of dollars for his beliefs. And became a target for public scorn. I would say he gave up a lot.

Unbelievable
None of that has anything to do with the movement to bring about the end of racial discrimination or encourage blacks to vote in the Deep South.

The above came about because he joined a black separatist group, not because he was fighting for any rights for his people. Martin Luther King would himself say how upset he is that Ali has joined such a group.The Nation was against the concept of integration which they believed would bring about the destruction of their race. That is why it never got involved in any of the marches, sit ins and movements to encourage blacks in the south to exercise their legal right to vote or end racial discrimination.

You are deliberately mixing up two separate things which are not even remotely related

[Toney616]

This is why it's ridiculous for him to ignore those factors and use Ali's attitude from that time as if it happened in 2011.

I'm saying that the guy has no right to pick up any Civil Rights awards and you are talking about his views in 2011? If he was as sincere in his faith as he claims that he would have no choice than to decline those awards. Why are you constantly talking about other things?

[Joeyzagz]

The day before the funeral of his former friend, look how happy he is

Look how happy he is. I think he is happy because he knows a lot of ***s are going to die! Or maybe he is just happy to be in the company of a head of state?

No, that can't be it. He is smiling because he is evil just like Hitler. Im going to ignore all the circumstances and conditions leading up to this moment. Im going to forget all the good things he claimed to have done for ***s to avoid prison, and call a spade a spade. Max is a bastard.

Hitler was a genocidal maniac, and Max Schmeling was his best friend. He has more photos with Max than he does with his own generals. If Max hadnt lost like an inferior *** to Joe Louis they wouldve been BFF's forever.


Hitler was a much bigger boxing fan than Malcolm.

There is one kind of sport which should be specially encouraged, although many people who call themselves VÖLKISCH consider it brutal and vulgar, and that is boxing. It is incredible how many false notions prevail among the 'cultivated' classes. The fact that the young man learns how to fence and then spends his time in duels is considered quite natural and respectable. But boxing--that is brutal. Why? There is no other sport which equals this in developing the militant spirit, none that demands such a power of rapid decision or which gives the body the flexibility of good steel. It is no more vulgar when two young people settle their differences with their fists than with sharp-pointed pieces of steel. One who is attacked and defends himself with his fists surely does not act less manly than one who runs off and yells for the assistance of a policeman. But, above all, a healthy youth has to learn to endure hard knocks.

If our superior class had not received such a distinguished education, and if, on the contrary, they had learned boxing, it would never have been possible for bullies and deserters and other such CANAILLE to carry through a German revolution.

I have always considered boxing and ju-jitsu more important than some kind of bad, because mediocre, training in rifle-shooting. If the German nation were presented with a body of young men who had been perfectly trained in athletic sports, who were imbued with an ardent love for their country and a readiness to take the initiative in a fight, then the national State could make an army out of that body within less than two years

[Toney616]

Hitler was a much bigger boxing fan than Malcolm.

How does this help you exactly? I'm talking about the current portrayal of Ali as though he was some kind of Gandhi type figure during his boxing career. To the point where he is now claiming awards for things he played no part in. You cannot play the he was helpless he didn't want to be a martyr card here either. He is sitting on a couch in Manila (1975) bragging about associating with members of the Klan. The same Klan who were beating up and even killing black people/civil rights activists. He saw Elijah as a divinely inspired man so he had no problem doing whatever Elijah told him to do.

[Toney616]

Here is what 'Iron Mike' said to someone during a press conference.

"Youre scared like a little white pussy. Scared of a real man! I'll f#ck you till you love me, ***6ot."

This type of racism is scarier because Tyson was speaking his true feelings about whites, not reciting lines from a mysterious cult leader.

Tyson wouldnt talk to interviewers unless he fornicated with them first, he told others to **** off.

1: Don't criticize Ali because Tyson was worse than him

You have a convicted rapist's nickname in your sig. A guy who threatened to sodomize a white man, and eat another mans children. So forgive me if I find your Ali criticism mild and pointless.

2: Don't criticize Ali, because you have the user name Ironmike, which must mean you wholeheartedly support everything Mike Tyson has ever done

Ali/Schmelling were too big to simply move away, They werent exactly regular civilians. Easy target. If you want to criticize them, criticize them for not having a Deathwish like Malcolm X. They are sportsmen not martyrs.

3: Don't criticize them they were helpless, they didn't have a death wish

No, that can't be it. He is smiling because he is evil just like Hitler. Im going to ignore all the circumstances and conditions leading up to this moment. Im going to forget all the good things he claimed to have done for ***s to avoid prison, and call a spade a spade. Max is a bastard.

4: Max is a evil willing accomplice???? Not sure what your argument here is, maybe Max is evil so I cant criticize Ali?

[Joeyzagz]

How does this help you exactly? I'm talking about the current portrayal of Ali as though he was some kind of Gandhi type figure during his boxing career. To the point where he is now claiming awards for things he played no part in. You cannot play the he was helpless he didn't want to be a martyr card here either. He is sitting on a couch in Manila (1975) bragging about associating with members of the Klan. The same Klan who were beating up and even killing black people/civil rights activists. He saw Elijah as a divinely inspired man so he had no problem doing whatever Elijah told him to do.

You are ignoring the reality of the hostile era that caused him to join the movement


You are ignoring the real threat of death once he was in the movement.
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/*********s_spies/assassins/malcolm_x/5-1-Malcolm-X-in-his-coffin.jpg[/IMG]

You are ignoring the threat of assassination outside the movement


You are ignoring that he was America's biggest celebrity Ambassador to the third world. The people of Africa admired and adored him. Islamic countries loved him...These are people America had trouble reaching, thats why he is lauded so heavily today. He bridged gaps and America was grateful.