Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[joseph5620]

Max as an English-speaking German of 1936, had more options than Ali had as a black of the hostile 60's.

Max didnt HAVE to return to **** Germany. In fact he was returning when a lot of Germans were getting hell out of there. Einstein fled to America in 1933, but Max returns in 36 to be worshiped as a hero and **** superman.

If Max had stayed in America, he couldve received his rightful title shot against Braddock and been heavyweight champ of the world. Max had many options but chose to be in Germany and schmooze it up with the Fuhrer.

Now for Ali


^^Keep in mind that this is the world Ali lives in prior to NOI.

Wide eyed 22 year old is approached by a millionaire black(How many millionaire blacks existed in the 60's?) , to become Muhammad Ali.

*He refuses, he gets pegged as an enemy along with his friend Malcolm X(dead man walking).

*He accepts, possible fortune and fame, supposed lifelong security.

Ali lived in a very hostile world with threats flying from all angles. Vietnam, The Government, the police, his own NOI, Draft committee, racist groups, grassy knoll assassins. There were not many safe havens he could escape to if any. Despite all this, he rarely lost his cool or threatened to stomp on any childrens testicles.
I can separate the man from the movement. I understand that he was the prized pawn. If you can't or won't distinguish between the two that is totally your choice.

This is why it's ridiculous for him to ignore those factors and use Ali's attitude from that time as if it happened in 2011.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

[B][I]Because that's what the civil rights movement was about. Not rhetoric. Ali never infringed upon anybody's civil rights that you keep complaining about. You keep talking about Malcolm X as some civil rights hero. But if you want to be truthful, Malcolm X did less for civil rights than Ali. In fact he did very little for civil rights other than talk in spite of you claiming "he got involved." How many marches in Alabama or boycotts did Malcom X participte in? Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist who actually went through the fire. Not Malcolm X.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but not this. Malcom X, after leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964 and beginning activism at home Malcolm joined King in the civil rights movement, they met in Washington in March 1964. He had good links with the Student Nonviolence Co-ordinating Committee during this time including chair John Lewis and Mississippi co-ordinator Fannie Lou Hamer.

When MLK was imprisoned Malcolm visited Selma Alabama in January 1965 and met with King's wife. He promoted black voter registration in Selma and supported King's movement. Corretta Scott King, MLK's wife quotes him in her autobiography as saying this:

"“I didn’t come to Selma to make his job difficult, I really did come thinking that I could make it easier. If the white people realize what the alternative is, perhaps they will be more willing to hear Dr. King”

Malcolm X was assaniated within days. He would surely have played a greater role in the civil rights movement had he lasted as long as MLK and been as enlightened as MLK from the beginning but we must understand Malcolm was on a journey and he was in the light, and assasinated because he had seen the light of political unity.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

Max as an English-speaking German of 1936, had more options than Ali had as a black of the hostile 60's.

Max didnt HAVE to return to **** Germany. In fact he was returning when a lot of Germans were getting hell out of there. Einstein fled to America in 1933, but Max returns in 36 to be worshiped as a hero and **** superman.

If Max had stayed in America, he couldve received his rightful title shot against Braddock and been heavyweight champ of the world. Max had many options but chose to be in Germany and schmooze it up with the Fuhrer.

Now for Ali


^^Keep in mind that this is the world Ali lives in prior to NOI.

Wide eyed 22 year old is approached by a millionaire black(How many millionaire blacks existed in the 60's?) , to become Muhammad Ali.

*He refuses, he gets pegged as an enemy along with his friend Malcolm X(dead man walking).

*He accepts, possible fortune and fame, supposed lifelong security.

Ali lived in a very hostile world with threats flying from all angles. Vietnam, The Government, the police, his own NOI, Draft committee, racist groups, grassy knoll assassins. There were not many safe havens he could escape to if any. Despite all this, he rarely lost his cool or threatened to stomp on any childrens testicles.

I can separate the man from the movement. I understand that he was the prized pawn. If you can't or won't distinguish between the two that is totally your choice.

Now thats a post...green k

[joseph5620]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but not this. Malcom X, after leaving the Nation of Islam in 1964 and beginning activism at home Malcolm joined King in the civil rights movement, they met in Washington in March 1964. He had good links with the Student Nonviolence Co-ordinating Committee during this time including chair John Lewis and Mississippi co-ordinator Fannie Lou Hamer.

When MLK was imprisoned Malcolm visited Selma Alabama in January 1965 and met with King's wife. He promoted black voter registration in Selma and supported King's movement. Corretta Scott King, MLK's wife quotes him in her autobiography as saying this:

"“I didn’t come to Selma to make his job difficult, I really did come thinking that I could make it easier. If the white people realize what the alternative is, perhaps they will be more willing to hear Dr. King”

Malcolm X was assaniated within days. He would surely have played a greater role in the civil rights movement had he lasted as long as MLK and been as enlightened as MLK from the beginning but we must understand Malcolm was on a journey and he was in the light, and assasinated because he had seen the light of political unity.

That's possible but I can only go by what he actually did. Not what he might have done had he lived. Or what he wanted to do but never did.

[RubenSonny]

Joseph you need to read up on Malcolm X and truly look at what he did, like he said eating at the dinner table doesn't make you a diner. http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/op...n-malcolm.html this explains why there are a lot of misconceptions about X and the man talking about it writ a book about him that is definitely worth a read if your interested.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

[/B]



That's possible but I can only go by what he actually did. Not what he might have done had he lived. Or what he wanted to do but never did.

Its pretty clear he had good intentions after 64. You've read my post, he supported Dr King and his voter registration campaign in Alabama and met with his wife. He spoke out against the local government that imprisoned him there.

What we can conclude is that the Nation of Islam exploited black people's weak political position and was no good for black people in the long term.

Malcolm recognised that and paid the price for recognising that with his life.

[joseph5620]

Its pretty clear he had good intentions after 64. You've read my post, he supported Dr King and his voter registration campaign in Alabama and met with his wife. He spoke out against the local government that imprisoned him there.

What we can conclude is that the Nation of Islam exploited black people's weak political position and was no good for black people in the long term.

Malcolm recognised that and paid the price for recognising that with his life.

I can't argue with you about that. I was too extreme with my description of Malcolm X in an effort to make my point. I know the positive things that Malcolm X did. Malcolm X changed his views and Ali changed his and my point (to the TS) was that neither was any more a civil rights icon than the other.

[Toney616]

That isn't true. Ali did leave the nation of Islam. He became a Sunni ****** in 1975 and their religious philosophy is totally different from the Nation of Islam.

H enever left.
After the death of Elijah Muhammad his son Wallace Muhammad would take over the nation and decide to move it towards Sunni Islam. He would even change the name to the American ****** group or something like that. Farrakhan upset about the new direction would leave the group and start his own Nation of Islam.

After Elijah Muhammad's death, the Nation of Islam splintered into three distinct factions. He had not named a successor, but his son, Warith Deen Muhammad, was named the new leader of the organization at the following day's Saviours' Day celebration.[33]

Under Warith Muhammad, the Nation of Islam became a more moderate organization. It accepted white members and the Fruit of Islam was disbanded. Eventually Warith Muhammad's faction was renamed the American Society of ******s. He delivered the first ****** invocation in the United States Senate, and, in 1993, with President Bill Clinton in attendance, said an Islamic prayer in an interfaith service.[34][35]

Louis Farrakhan left the American Society of ******s and founded his own organization, which retained the Nation of Islam name and hewed more closely to Elijah Muhammad's ideology, including the tenet that Wallace Fard Muhammad was Allah on Earth. He re-established the Fruit of Islam and began publishing the Final Call newspaper.[citation needed]regaining many of the Nation of Islam's National properties including the NOI National Headquarters Mosque Maryam, reopenning over 130 NOI mosque in America and the World.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Muhammad

[DET. IRONSIDE]

H enever left.
After the death of Elijah Muhammad his son Wallace Muhammad would take over the nation and decide to move it towards Sunni Islam. He would even change the name to the American ****** group or something like that. Farrakhan upset about the new direction would leave the group and start his own Nation of Islam.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Muhammad

2008- "Muhammad Ali has embraced Sufi Islam and is on a New Spiritual Quest"

How did your dad come to embrace Sufi Islam, and what attracts him to it?

My father has a collection of books by a man named Hazrat Inayat Khan. They're Sufi teachings. He read them front to cover. They're old and yellow and the pages are torn. They're amazing. He always says they're the best books in the world.

My father is very spiritual-more spiritual now than he is religious. It was important for him to be very religious and take the stands he did in earlier years. It was a different time. He still tries to convert people to Islam, but it's not the same. His health and his spirituality have changed, and it's not so much about being religious, but about going out and making people happy, doing charity, and supporting people and causes.

Are you a ******?

It's not that I'm not ******, but that I can't call myself a practicing ******. I wasn't raised going to the mosque after my parents got divorced. I read the Qur'an a lot. But I also believe all religions are true. If I had to choose one religion that most expressed what I believe, it would be Islam.

Is your mother Christian?

She's not Christian-she's Science of Mind. I have the influence of both. I'm not religious, I'm spiritual, which I think is better.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Isla...ual-Quest.aspx

reading that, I think its fair to conclude he's changed his beliefs quite considerably from Elijah Muhammad's Nation of Islam that you're referring to. His wife and daughter are "infidels" according to that faith.

[Toney616]

Malcolm X did less for civil rights than Ali.

What did Ali ever do?

[
In fact he did very little for civil rights other than talk in spite of you claiming "he got involved." How many marches in Alabama or boycotts did Malcom X participte in? Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist who actually went through the fire. Not Malcolm X.

Someone else has answered this point so I wont touch it

That's all that matters when it comes to "civil rights".

]

No its not.
How can a guy joined to a group which refuses to get involved in the civil rights movement to the point where it forms ties with the Klan qualify as a a civil rights hero?

Ali screwing over Malcolm X or Joe Frazier had no impact on the civil rights movement and that implication is more of an insult to the civil rights movement than anything Ali ever did.

Now you are twisting my words.
Malcolm X formed the organisation of African American Unity which wanted to work with King and the other civil rights groups to push for voting rights and the end of racial discrimination. He was in ther process of trying to work out and agreement with the other organizations before he was killed. If given the chance he would of played a major role in the movement.