Muhammad Ali brags about preaching at a KKK convention

[joseph5620]

I never tried to justify any of the sick acts that Tyson was involved in, neither does any of Tyson's sick acts play any consequence in what this thread is about.
Ali joined a cult group which was anti civil rights, which even went as far as forming a pact with groups like the Klan which were trying to violently suppress the movement. Ali fans unable to accept the fact that their hero's accomplishments start and end in the ring have twisted history and made him out to be some kind of civil rights hero. Ali being the honest man he is has happily gone along with it. So we now have the situation where a man who was anti civil rights to the point were he was willing to associate with the Klan is now being portrayed as some kind of civil rights activist and even picking up awards for it.

He is entitled to say whatever he wants as long as he is willing to accept responsibility for his words
Its an insult to all of the memories of the people involved in the civil rights struggle for him to actually pick that award up

Actually it does because you're critisizing Ali for his past while giving Tyson a pass. It shows a clear double standard.




1.How has he not accepted responsibility?


2 How is it an "insult" to the people involved in the civil rights struggle?



3.What group of people did Ali oppress in this country or anywhere else?



4. What award are you referring too?

[UmarImranKhalil]

Ali's heart is Gold.


For years he regurgitated Elijah's bull**** 'teachings', and it has been held against him by some.


But look at the great actions that were performed from the goodness of his heart for a true measure of the man.

[RubenSonny]

Ali's heart is Gold.


For years he regurgitated Elijah's bull**** 'teachings', and it has been held against him by some.


But look at the great actions that were performed from the goodness of his heart for a true measure of the man.

I've touched on this a number of times, its no coincidence that Ali left the NOI after the death of Elijah Muhammad, theres a good chance he could've been killed had he done it before hand and he knew this.

[BigStereotype]

I'm as big a mutt as they come and I've never run into any problems for it.

[Toney616]

This is the video I wanted to post. You can substitute the name Schmelling with Ali and it explains exactly what he/they were going through. First 40 seconds.

Ali wanted to join the nation to the point he ws willing to fall out with friends and family. The nation in turn wanted nothing to do with him. It was only after he beat Liston that Elijah realized what a gem fate had placed in his lap. They courted him hard and he joined, the only condition was he had to cut of all ties with Malcolm X in return they gave him the name Cassiux X. Elijah would find out later that Malcolm was still mentoring Ali, so he offered him the ****** name Muhammad Ali, in return for cutting all ties with Malcolm, which Muhammad did. The nation feared Malcolm's new direction so they decided to assainate him, which is what the whole year long harrasment campaign was all about. Ali like the rest of the Nation zombies openly called for Malcolm X's death and when Malcolm X wife pleaded with him to use what ever influence he had to save her husbands life he refused. After the death of Malcolm X he was filmed at with Elijah laughing about it.

It is true that his house was firebombed and his wife(Sonji) suspected it was the ******s, but Ali didnt think that. He thought it was from Malcolm X's former followers, who had also sent a bomb to Elijah's headquarters. That was why back then he was always surrounded by Nation of Islam bodyguards(Fruit of Islam). The FBI would inform Ali that there was a possible hit on his life from the followers of Malcolm which was why the Ali-Liston II fight was relocated to Maine

He didnt have to start worrying about his own safety until the prickly subject of the draft came along. Ali didn't want to go to prison neither did the Government want to send him to prison. Dr King had been assasinated and with the insuing riots they didnt want to send a popular black sportsmen to prison. Which is why they were so desperate to cut a deal with him, which Ali was going to accept. The deal was he didn't have to fight at all but would give talks and put on exhibition fights. The problem was Elijah wouldn't accept it and im sure gave Ali "advice" that it was not in his best interests to go. So Ali who had laughed when Malcolm X was killed found himself in the position where there was a possiblity of it happening to him. That was why he was crying when Sugar Ray Robinson visited him.

He had a number of chances to leave the nation, one of which was during his exile. When the nation kicked him out for a year, for saying to a reporter he was willing to return to the ring. Ali believed the world was soon going to end wanted to get back into the nation because only nation members would be saved. The nation of course allowed him back in. He would get his license back and return to the ring. From that point on he was practicaaly free to do what he wanted.

The only time he was ever at loggerheads with Elijah was over the issue of Nam. And look how that worked out for him he came back to boxing a hero and used his new found fame to turn Frazier's life into a living Hell. He was never a helpless victim and knew full well what he was doing all the time.

So how is this the same thing?

[Toney616]

[/B]
Actually it does because you're critisizing Ali for his past while giving Tyson a pass. It shows a clear double standard.

How am I giving a Tyson a free pass exactly?
Lets see, I was a massive fan of Tyson until Ruddock II, when I really started to notice what a dirty fighter he became. After that I was no longer a fan. I of course would hear about the whole ear biting incident and the rest of the madness he was involved in at that time. Back in the early 2000's I would have the opportunity to meet him when he came to England to fight Julius Francis and I turned it down. So how is he getting a free pass? What action of his have I ever tried to defend?

1.How has he not accepted responsibility?

He was calling for the death of another man, who he possibly could of saved. And the only thing he says in interviews is that he is sorry that he didnt talk to Malcolm when they met at the Ghanaian airport. As for his involvment with the Klan do you really think he would ever accept any responsibility for what ever his actions down there may have caused?

2 How is it an "insult" to the people involved in the civil rights struggle?

As a member of the Nation of Islam he was anti civil rights to the point that he refused to get involved and called those involved in it uncle toms. He even associated with the Klan which tried to violently suppress the movement in the Deep South

Malcolm X it should be pointed out was also a civil rights activist.

3.What group of people did Ali oppress in this country or anywhere else? ?

When did I ever say he oppressed any group?

4. What award are you referring too?[/I][/B]

The Award he recieved for his Civil rights "work"

On June 20th, Major League Baseball will confer its annual Beacon Awards for outstanding contributions to civil rights to baseball legend Hank Aaron, comedian and social commentator Bill Cosby, and boxing’s most grandiose personality, Muhammad Ali.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...il-rights-hero

[Toney616]

I've touched on this a number of times, its no coincidence that Ali left the NOI after the death of Elijah Muhammad, theres a good chance he could've been killed had he done it before hand and he knew this.

He never left. Wallace D Muhammad took over and gave the group a make overand new name. Farrakhan, upset over the new direction, would leave the group reclaim the name and start his own Nation of Islam

[joseph5620]

How am I giving a Tyson a free pass exactly?
Lets see, I was a massive fan of Tyson until Ruddock II, when I really started to notice what a dirty fighter he became. After that I was no longer a fan. I of course would hear about the whole ear biting incident and the rest of the madness he was involved in at that time. Back in the early 2000's I would have the opportunity to meet him when he came to England to fight Julius Francis and I turned it down. So how is he getting a free pass? What action of his have I ever tried to defend?

He was calling for the death of another man, who he possibly could of saved. And the only thing he says in interviews is that he is sorry that he didnt talk to Malcolm when they met at the Ghanaian airport. As for his involvment with the Klan do you really think he would ever accept any responsibility for what ever his actions down there may have caused?

As a member of the Nation of Islam he was anti civil rights to the point that he refused to get involved and called those involved in it uncle toms. He even associated with the Klan which tried to violently suppress the movement in the Deep South

Malcolm X it should be pointed out was also a civil rights activist.
When did I ever say he oppressed any group?
The Award he recieved for his Civil rights "work"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...il-rights-hero

Because that's what the civil rights movement was about. Not rhetoric. Ali never infringed upon anybody's civil rights that you keep complaining about. You keep talking about Malcolm X as some civil rights hero. But if you want to be truthful, Malcolm X did less for civil rights than Ali. In fact he did very little for civil rights other than talk in spite of you claiming "he got involved." How many marches in Alabama or boycotts did Malcom X participte in? Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist who actually went through the fire. Not Malcolm X.



Ali's actions "caused" nothing. Ali didn't create a problem that already existed. And you still haven't answered the question of how Ali impeded the Civil rights movement. Did he enforce any laws? Did he kill or abuse anybody? That's all that matters when it comes to "civil rights".


Ali screwing over Malcolm X or Joe Frazier had no impact on the civil rights movement and that implication is more of an insult to the civil rights movement than anything Ali ever did.

[joseph5620]

He never left. Wallace D Muhammad took over and gave the group a make overand new name. Farrakhan, upset over the new direction, would leave the group reclaim the name and start his own Nation of Islam

That isn't true. Ali did leave the nation of Islam. He became a Sunni ****** in 1975 and their religious philosophy is totally different from the Nation of Islam.

[Joeyzagz]

So how is this the same thing?

Max as an English-speaking German of 1936, had more options than Ali had as a black of the hostile 60's.

Max didnt HAVE to return to **** Germany. In fact he was returning when a lot of Germans were getting hell out of there. Einstein fled to America in 1933, but Max returns in 36 to be worshiped as a hero and **** superman.

If Max had stayed in America, he couldve received his rightful title shot against Braddock and been heavyweight champ of the world. Max had many options but chose to be in Germany and schmooze it up with the Fuhrer.

Now for Ali

He didnt have to start worrying about his own safety until the prickly subject of the draft came along

^^Keep in mind that this is the world Ali lives in prior to NOI.

Wide eyed 22 year old is approached by a millionaire black(How many millionaire blacks existed in the 60's?) , to become Muhammad Ali.

*He refuses, he gets pegged as an enemy along with his friend Malcolm X(dead man walking).

*He accepts, possible fortune and fame, supposed lifelong security.

Ali lived in a very hostile world with threats flying from all angles. Vietnam, The Government, the police, his own NOI, Draft committee, racist groups, grassy knoll assassins. There were not many safe havens he could escape to if any. Despite all this, he rarely lost his cool or threatened to stomp on any childrens testicles.

I can separate the man from the movement. I understand that he was the prized pawn. If you can't or won't distinguish between the two that is totally your choice.