Stylistic Groups

[JAB5239]

Group #1 (tall jabbers) :
Lennox Lewis , Vitali Klitschko , Wladimir Klitschko , Lance Whitaker , Jameel McCline , Primo Carnerra , Larry Holmes , Muhammad Ali , Chad Dawson , Bob Foster , Antonio Tarver , Thomas Hearns , Paul Williams , Alexis Arguello , Amir Khan

Can I add these to this group :
James Corbett

Group #2 (short pressure fighters / swarmers) :
David Tua , Mike Tyson , Joe Frazier , Rocky Marciano , Sam Langford ,
Tommy Burns , Charley Mitchell , Carmen Basilio ,

Group #3 (short versatile (mildly aggressive) counter punchers) :
Muhammad Qawi (Dwight Braxton) , Montell Griffin , Chris Byrd , James Toney ,

Qawi a "mildly" aggressive counter puncher? Lol!!

Group #4 (safety first , avoid fight at all cost counter punchers) :
Pernell Whitaker , Jersey Joe Walcott , Jimmy Young , Jimmy Ellis

These fighters were not strictly safety first.

Group #5 (right hand punchers) :
Oliver McCall , Hassim Rahman , Kirk Johnson , Earnest Shavers , Joe Louis , Max Baer , Max Schmelling , Julian Jackson , Felix Trinidad

Group #6 (sluggers) :
George Foreman , Rid**** Bowe , Sonny Liston , Michael Grant , Evander Holyfield , Ike Ibeabuchi , Joe Mesi , Sam Peter , Vassily Jirov , Nigel Benn , Iran Barkley , Gerald McClellan , Jorge Castro , Marvin Hagler , John Mugabi , Roberto Duran , Antonio Margarito ,

Sluggers meaning these guys just went in to brawl?


And to which group will you associate these (each case to his own) :
Ezzard Charles , Archie Moore , Michael Spinks , Orlin Norris , George Chuvalo , Oscar Bonavena , Jerry Quarry , Dominick Guinn , Oscar Delahoya ,

So much wrong with what you already have down. You really need to watch more film and reevaluate a lot of fighters.

[BennyST]

Group #1 (tall jabbers) :
Lennox Lewis , Vitali Klitschko , Wladimir Klitschko , Lance Whitaker , Jameel McCline , Primo Carnerra , Larry Holmes , Muhammad Ali , Chad Dawson , Bob Foster , Antonio Tarver , Thomas Hearns , Paul Williams , Alexis Arguello , Amir Khan

Can I add these to this group :
James Corbett

Group #2 (short pressure fighters / swarmers) :
David Tua , Mike Tyson , Joe Frazier , Rocky Marciano , Sam Langford ,
Tommy Burns , Charley Mitchell , Carmen Basilio ,

Group #3 (short versatile (mildly aggressive) counter punchers) :
Muhammad Qawi (Dwight Braxton) , Montell Griffin , Chris Byrd , James Toney ,

Group #4 (safety first , avoid fight at all cost counter punchers) :
Pernell Whitaker , Jersey Joe Walcott , Jimmy Young , Jimmy Ellis

Group #5 (right hand punchers) :
Oliver McCall , Hassim Rahman , Kirk Johnson , Earnest Shavers , Joe Louis , Max Baer , Max Schmelling , Julian Jackson , Felix Trinidad

Group #6 (sluggers) :
George Foreman , Rid**** Bowe , Sonny Liston , Michael Grant , Evander Holyfield , Ike Ibeabuchi , Joe Mesi , Sam Peter , Vassily Jirov , Nigel Benn , Iran Barkley , Gerald McClellan , Jorge Castro , Marvin Hagler , John Mugabi , Roberto Duran , Antonio Margarito ,




And to which group will you associate these (each case to his own) :
Ezzard Charles , Archie Moore , Michael Spinks , Orlin Norris , George Chuvalo , Oscar Bonavena , Jerry Quarry , Dominick Guinn , Oscar Delahoya ,

Hagler and Duran should be in the short, counter puncher thing. They were hardly sluggers. Neither was Bowe, Liston, Jirov wasn't a slugger....

[BennyST]

The reach stats are lies on at least 97% of the time , but Hagler a jabber ?
Tyson could jab his way in too but did it make him a jabber ? I think not.

Then why brawler ? Hearns brawled more than he does , was he a brawler ?

Which was my first guess about him , but then he could also be regarded as a right hand puncher , as well as a swarmer and a counter puncher .

Absolutely. He fought purely off his jab. He was a very right hand dominant fighter. He fits perfectly in the short, versatile, counter puncher bit.

[frankenfrank]

Hagler and Duran should be in the short, counter puncher thing. They were hardly sluggers. Neither was Bowe, Liston, Jirov wasn't a slugger....

Because so many objected it I currently moved Hagler and Duran into the counter puncher group , but how do you define Bowe and Liston ? pure boxers ? counter punchers ? pressure fighters ? or maybe slicksters ?

And Jirov not a slugger ? I wonder what your classification of him would be .

[Toney616]

Because so many objected it I currently moved Hagler and Duran into the counter puncher group , but how do you define Bowe and Liston ? pure boxers ? counter punchers ? pressure fighters ? or maybe slicksters ?

And Jirov not a slugger ? I wonder what your classification of him would be .

I would class Bowe and Liston as boxer-punchers, both of them had great skills and solid power

[frankenfrank]

I would class Bowe and Liston as boxer-punchers, both of them had great skills and solid power

Reasonable. But I did not have such a group because almost every one would have been in it , so I put them where they belong the most.
I tried to distinguish between the types of boxer punchers. Julian Jackson could box too and well , so was he a boxer puncher too ?

[Toney616]

Reasonable. But I did not have such a group because almost every one would have been in it , so I put them where they belong the most.
I tried to distinguish between the types of boxer punchers. Julian Jackson could box too and well , so was he a boxer puncher too ?

Jackson could box, but he wasn't on the same level as Bowe or Liston. Liston was great technically, could block/slip and roll with punches, had a great jab which he used to set up his power punches.

Bowe fought out of the orthodox stance, had a great jab (didnt use it as much as Liston did), could fight on the inside and was adept at slipping punches.

[BennyST]

Because so many objected it I currently moved Hagler and Duran into the counter puncher group , but how do you define Bowe and Liston ? pure boxers ? counter punchers ? pressure fighters ? or maybe slicksters ?

And Jirov not a slugger ? I wonder what your classification of him would be .

Well, you can't define every fighter so easily. Jirov is not a slugger. If he's anything he's a volume puncher, but not a slugger.

George Foreman is your classic slugger. Jirov not so much.

Bowe did everything well. Inside, outside, off the jab, leading.....I would consider him a bit more of a jab oriented fighter. He wasn't a great counter puncher.

Liston, in terms of your category's, I would put closer to the pressure fighter bit. He had a great jab, was never a slugger, went to the body well and set everything up rather brilliantly.

To me, a slugger is a dude who relies on being able to bomb their guy out. Overwhelm them with power and brute strength without too much concern over game plan, strategy, skill etc etc etc.

[BennyST]

This is pretty typical Jirov:

[frankenfrank]

Well, you can't define every fighter so easily. Jirov is not a slugger. If he's anything he's a volume puncher, but not a slugger.

George Foreman is your classic slugger. Jirov not so much.

Bowe did everything well. Inside, outside, off the jab, leading.....I would consider him a bit more of a jab oriented fighter. He wasn't a great counter puncher.

Jirov and Bowe were not the hardest punching sluggers but were sluggers in their style. What is the difference between their technique and sluggers' technique ? Bowe was a versatile slugger but was more of a slugger than anything else , not a pure slugger if that's what you meant but not so far from it.

Liston, in terms of your category's, I would put closer to the pressure fighter bit. He had a great jab, was never a slugger, went to the body well and set everything up rather brilliantly.

To me, a slugger is a dude who relies on being able to bomb their guy out. Overwhelm them with power and brute strength without too much concern over game plan, strategy, skill etc etc etc.

Isn't it exactly what he did against Patterson twice and Cleveland Williams twice and then some others ? what you describe here is the untypical Liston.