The Magic Man's Top 10 P4P ATG of ALL TIME

[GameGod]

This thread is in the boxing history section, most of these people have to get their great grand kids to help them log onto the internets. Ask them who would win, Klitschko vs. Braddock and I bet theyd all pick Braddock...why? Because they live in the past. Look im sure they have a lot of knowledge on who Jack dempsey fought in his 4th match etc...I dont care, explain this.

How far away I am from even having a great grand-kid might surprise you.
As for Klitschko vs. Braddock, that would easily go Klitschko's way. There's no point in being overly balanced to the past. But nor is there a good reason to believe that boxers now are superior to those of the past. Klitschko is superior to Braddock because he is more dominant against a higher quality of opposition, not because he is champion in a more modern era.

Swimming is virtually the same sport as its always been, correct? Same strokes, tight suits, yes I know suit technology has improved, but many swimmers wear drag suits throughout the season and only put on sharkskins etc...at the big meets. Clearly more people swam from 1930-1976 combined than do today right? Well the consolation heat at the Big Ten conference meet, every single one of them broke the 1976 50 freestyle record. Every single one. A highschooler broke the 50 freestyle record of that time by almost 3 seconds...Michael Phelps, who submits to olympic style drug testing, beat every single swimming world record from 5 days before, in practice...wearing board shorts.

Nutrition methods and training methods have improved as well, but unlike Boxing a lot of technique has changed in swimming. The last major set of technique changes in boxing was in the Joe Louis era. So I would easily accept it if you said Klitschko could beat Dempsey. However, since then (take, for instance, Sugar Ray Robinson), technique has changed little in boxing but a lot in swimming (along with ultra-effective new gear), and training methods have also not changed much in boxing. Therefore, Sugar Ray Robinson would easily defeat (theoretically, since we don't know his exact limit) Mayweather, based on dominance.

But again, this is completely missing the point. Like I said before, when ranking fighters across history you do not consider who would beat who, as, in some people's opinions (such as yours) this gives an advantage to more modern fighters. Rather, you need to compensate for the era in which the boxer lived and ask yourself how he would do if he lived now. The best way to do this is not to have a "mental match-up" of the fighters but rather to consider their DOMINANCE against their QUALITY OF OPPOSITION, factoring in things like how long their careers were and how often they fought.

[TheMagicMan]

How far away I am from even having a great grand-kid might surprise you.
As for Klitschko vs. Braddock, that would easily go Klitschko's way. There's no point in being overly balanced to the past. But nor is there a good reason to believe that boxers now are superior to those of the past. Klitschko is superior to Braddock because he is more dominant against a higher quality of opposition, not because he is champion in a more modern era.



Nutrition methods and training methods have improved as well, but unlike Boxing a lot of technique has changed in swimming. The last major set of technique changes in boxing was in the Joe Louis era. So I would easily accept it if you said Klitschko could beat Dempsey. However, since then (take, for instance, Sugar Ray Robinson), technique has changed little in boxing but a lot in swimming (along with ultra-effective new gear), and training methods have also not changed much in boxing. Therefore, Sugar Ray Robinson would easily defeat (theoretically, since we don't know his exact limit) Mayweather, based on dominance.

But again, this is completely missing the point. Like I said before, when ranking fighters across history you do not consider who would beat who, as, in some people's opinions (such as yours) this gives an advantage to more modern fighters. Rather, you need to compensate for the era in which the boxer lived and ask yourself how he would do if he lived now. The best way to do this is not to have a "mental match-up" of the fighters but rather to consider their DOMINANCE against their QUALITY OF OPPOSITION, factoring in things like how long their careers were and how often they fought.

First of all technique in boxing has changed a lot, you just dont notice the nuances, hand positions, the way people punch, just talk to any russian trainer and theyll tell you "we did study." Also SRR didnt fight the same comp, and he has losses. SRR fought retired policemen, janitors, bums who wandered into the ring. Fighting SRR it was like the price is right, youd be walking in, theyd like your look and theyd stop you. Theyd be like "want to fight SRR tonight?" adn youd be like "sure". Thats how SRR fights happened.

[Joeyzagz]

And as for the younger guy always beating the older guy, come on thats just ******. First of all, everyone knows that Fraziers sole goal in his career was to beat Ali, he did, and he never was the same fighter again, won 5 of his last 10 fights. He got complacent. Also Lewis was the HW champion, somethign that 90% of the old guys in your list were not. They were old washed up bums wheeled out there to add legitimacy to a younger fighter, not to really be a challenge.

90% where you get that number from?

Dempsey was Heavyweight champion of the world when Tunney beat him

JCC was (96-1) and lightweight champ when De la hoya beat him

Liston was Heavyweight champ of the world when Ali beat him

Ali was Lineal HW champ when Holmes beat him

Thats closer to 50% than 90% but the point is, the younger, hungrier, ATG should win if he expects to be put in the same class. And even if he wins, it still doesnt mean he is greater, just younger. (Holmes/ali) (DLH/JCC)

Prime Vitali didnt even win so its difficult to consider him at all.

If youre going to fight a HW championship fight, you will prep differently, VItali is smarter than Lewis, he prepares better and he trains harder.

Did you see the punch that opened the cut? uhh that wasnt a good hit, that was a fluke graze that pulled the skin.

Vitali was NOT smarter than Lewis, and the following clip will prove this.

Vitali was startled by Lennox's aggression in the 3rd round and foolishly tried to hold him to stop the onslaught. While in the clinch, Lennox blasted him on the side of the face and Vits eyelid exploded like a ketchup packet.

It was not a "fluke graze", more like a perfectly executed kill shot.



Old Lennox > Prime Vitali.

[TheMagicMan]

90% where you get that number from?

Dempsey was Heavyweight champion of the world when Tunney beat him

JCC was (96-1) and lightweight champ when De la hoya beat him

Liston was Heavyweight champ of the world when Ali beat him

Ali was Lineal HW champ when Holmes beat him

Thats closer to 50% than 90% but the point is, the younger, hungrier, ATG should win if he expects to be put in the same class. And even if he wins, it still doesnt mean he is greater, just younger. (Holmes/ali) (DLH/JCC)

Prime Vitali didnt even win so its difficult to consider him at all.



Vitali was NOT smarter than Lewis, and the following clip will prove this.

Vitali was startled by Lennox's aggression in the 3rd round and foolishly tried to hold him to stop the onslaught. While in the clinch, Lennox blasted him on the side of the face and Vits eyelid exploded like a ketchup packet.

It was not a "fluke graze", more like a perfectly executed kill shot.



Old Lennox > Prime Vitali.

You clearly have never boxed, thats an illegal shot, first Lewis was headbutting and then with his arm wrapped around his neck punched in the clinch, you are right, fight should have gone to a TD, or been stopped right there and Lewis should have gotted DQ'ed, Vitali won. Thanks for proving it.

[DarkTerror88]

You clearly have never boxed, thats an illegal shot, first Lewis was headbutting and then with his arm wrapped around his neck punched in the clinch, you are right, fight should have gone to a TD, or been stopped right there and Lewis should have gotte[n] DQ'ed, Vitali won. Thanks for proving it.

You never fought either because its not illegal ifso factso because Vitali started the clinch and was holding LL's arm. Vitali's head also wasnt being held onto like you said but the arm was around as it could not be used from there His head was pushed into LL's arm after the punch though.
I'm not really a fan of LL but i know what an illegal shot, ive been hit with quite a few.

[Poet682006]

The body part of the day is anus. As in: TheMagicMan speaks through his anus :bull****9:

Poet

[Poet682006]

You never fought either because its not illegal ifso factso because Vitali started the clinch and was holding LL's arm. Vitali's head also wasnt being held onto like you said but the arm was around as it could not be used from there His head was pushed into LL's arm after the punch though.
I'm not really a fan of LL but i know what an illegal shot, ive been hit with quite a few.

Magic Man also claims he's a lawyer :hahahaha9:

Poet

[DarkTerror88]

Magic Man also claims he's a lawyer :hahahaha9:

Poet

well, he's smart on that part, makes more than I do in a year in probably a week haha.

[BigStereotype]

1. Joe Calzaghe- 46-0, over 20 title defenses. Didnt go down until his mid 30's. wins over legends HOpkinds, Jones, and Eubank. Wins over Kessler, Lacy and Veit all guys who were very very good. Joe was the best.

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. Whats there to say that hasnt been said? Hes the man. Hard to put him number 2, but I just dont see a way that his style could match up with the southpaw dragon.

3. Vitali Klitschko- I love him, you love him, we all love him. Never been down, never finished a match behind on the score cards. A freak of nature.

4. Wladimir Klitschko- could overtake his bro someday. The more athletic brother, but with an acchilles heal called his chin. Hes learned to hide it and avoid punches to it.

5. Roy Jones Jr. - Freak athlete, afraid of British people was his only downfall. had he fought Benn or Collins or Eubank or beaten a joe calzaghe then he would be higher, but unfortunately he never did.

6. James Lights Out Toney- The beast

7. Lennox Lewis- Contrary to reports, the man didnt have that bad of a chin, watch the first round vs. Briggs. He took the mans best shots. I dont know how much he sparred, but in his 2 ko's he looked more stunned. In round 4 vs. Briggs he has felt the mans shots and stands there smiling at him. Big strong and skilled. No HW before his time would have stood much of a chance.

8. SRL- Had all the skills, was quick, the best of his time for sure, the boxing game has just passed his time up by a little bit.

9. Bad Chad Dawson- A man like Bad would murder an old timer like Marciano with speend and precision. He needs some better competition, but who knows how high or low he has to go to find it.

10. Marvin Hagler- A great great fighter who like SRL has just been a little bit passed by

Honorable mention -Pernell Whitaker, Paul Williams, Shane, JCC, and Erik Morales.

Dude, you forgot Zab Judah, Kimbo Slice, Obi-Wan Kenobi and my grandmother! What are you, ******ed or something?

[them_apples]

I know plenty about boxing history, let me ask you this. When you look down the greatest basketball players of all time, how many could play today? Or football players, you think Johnny Unitas, even his numbers, hold up today? This is a factual list, not some fantasy list where 5'9 182 pounders with no technique could beat a Klitschko. This is a real world list. I live in the real world. and operate in it as such. These are the 10 best fighters of all time, who if you put them in a ring against people their weight class, theyd perform the best. Im not taking into account for his time or what not.

the most hilarious part is Joe Calzaghe.