The Magic Man's Top 10 P4P ATG of ALL TIME

[TheMagicMan]

This is not a real world list...

Vitali couldnt handle an old version of Lennox, let alone a prime one. If this list were truly based on reality and actual ring events Lennox > Vitali.

I understand the logic of rating Joe over Roy because Joe beat Roy, and they were only 3 years apart in age.

But Vitali failed to beat Lennox with a 6 year age advantage! WTF are you smoking to rank that confirmed steroid user over the guy who beat him?

Here is why I rate Vit higher. He hasnt been KO'ed unlike Lennox and that fight wasnt Vitali's height. Vit is such a hard worker, such a brilliant guy who follows scripts perfectly. Fighting Lewis then was moving up in competition too fast. His fights before Lewis were Larry Donald, Vaugh Bean and Ross Purrity, he then took the Lewis fight on 12 days notice. He was fighting away from Europe for the first time in a long long time and I really think nothing was in his favor. Fighters do train harder for a HW championship fight and generally know who theyre fighting more than 2 weeks in advance.

Also everyone knows Vitali mostly trains via sparring. He was planning on fighting a low left handed fighter, who weighed 25 lbs less than Lewis at the time and was 3 inches shorter and fought completely differently, Cedric Boswell. Lewis was planning on fighting a guy Klitschko's size. Klitschko deserved a rematch, Lewis ducked it, to me Vitali got the defeat, but proved to be the better man.

[GameGod]

Hagler does have a win over Roy Jones...not sure wtf you guys are talking about. (pay attention to what I call the RJJ who lost to Cal and who Hagler has a win over pls). Also my list is perfect. and anyone who said Im from Wales? im from the home of Buster Douglas you dumb bastard. Columbus, Ohio. I just know the best when I see it. The best is Calzaghe. I know it, you know it, 45 people who felt his wrath know it.

OK. I think this can be taken as confirmation that you know absolutely nothing about Boxing history. Let's break this down.

Hagler does have a win over Roy Jones...not sure wtf you guys are talking about. (pay attention to what I call the RJJ who lost to Cal and who Hagler has a win over pls).

WRONG. Marvin Hagler does not have a win over Roy Jones Jr. (the man who is 5th on your last). That's a lie, a pure fabrication. This is confirmation that you are mouthing off and that you don't know what boxing history is.

Also my list is perfect. and anyone who said Im from Wales? im from the home of Buster Douglas you dumb bastard. Columbus, Ohio. I just know the best when I see it. The best is Calzaghe. I know it, you know it, 45 people who felt his wrath know it.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a "consensus" perfect list for Boxing's P4P Top 10 of All-Time. There is, however, a consensus for some names that absolutely require to be on such a list: Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, the list goes on. Generally speaking, you're only considering fighters of the last 15 years - try to understand that boxing has a 150 year history.

[Poet682006]

Generally speaking, you're only considering fighters of the last 15 years - try to understand that boxing has a 150 year history.

That's because in his warped world-view no one knew how to fight before ten years ago and human beings have evolved into supermen compared to fifteen years ago

Poet

[TheMagicMan]

OK. I think this can be taken as confirmation that you know absolutely nothing about Boxing history. Let's break this down.



WRONG. Marvin Hagler does not have a win over Roy Jones Jr. (the man who is 5th on your last). That's a lie, a pure fabrication. This is confirmation that you are mouthing off and that you don't know what boxing history is.



Firstly, there is no such thing as a "consensus" perfect list for Boxing's P4P Top 10 of All-Time. There is, however, a consensus for some names that absolutely require to be on such a list: Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, the list goes on. Generally speaking, you're only considering fighters of the last 15 years - try to understand that boxing has a 150 year history.

Cite where I said that he beat Roy Jones Jr. The 5th on the list? I said he has a win over Roy jones...which he does. Thats a truth, youre a liar and purely lying in the history section and should be banned.

Also my list is perfect, and Alis a joke, youre a joke, Ali would be murdered right now by today heavies.

[Joeyzagz]

Vit is such a hard worker, such a brilliant guy who follows scripts perfectly. Fighting Lewis then was moving up in competition too fast. His fights before Lewis were Larry Donald, Vaugh Bean and Ross Purrity, he then took the Lewis fight on 12 days notice.

Lewis was scheduled to fight a guy 5 inches shorter than Vitali and had to TRULY switch on 12 days notice. Meanwhile Vitali had been gearing up for a championship bout with Lennox for the past 2 years. He got his wish, and failed.

Here is why I rate Vit higher. He hasnt been KO'ed unlike Lennox and that fight wasnt Vitali's height.

Wladimir has been KOd 3 times and you have him ranked higher as well. Your list is based on favoritism, not reality. In reality Lennox fought better competition than both brothers and actually defeated everyone he ever faced.

But back to Vitali...If you look throughout history the young ATG has ALWAYS defeated the old ATG.

Johnson beat Jeffries
Tunney beat Dempsey
Camacho beat SRL
Marciano beat Joe Louis
Ali beat Liston
Holmes beat Ali
Tyson beat Holmes
DLH beat JCC

History shows us that the younger guy, regardless if hes better or not, should have the advantage in the superfight.

Ali/Foreman is the exception to this rule which is why Ali is held in such high regard. Vit had every advantage in his favor: Youth, Activity, Power, Hunger and still came up short.

[Stone Roses!]

Lewis was scheduled to fight a guy 5 inches shorter than Vitali and had to TRULY switch on 12 days notice. Meanwhile Vitali had been gearing up for a championship bout with Lennox for the past 2 years. He got his wish, and failed.



Wladimir has been KOd 3 times and you have him ranked higher as well. Your list is based on favoritism, not reality. In reality Lennox fought better competition than both brothers and actually defeated everyone he ever faced.

But back to Vitali...If you look throughout history the young ATG has ALWAYS defeated the old ATG.

Johnson beat Jeffries
Tunney beat Dempsey
Camacho beat SRL
Marciano beat Joe Louis
Ali beat Liston
Holmes beat Ali
Tyson beat Holmes
DLH beat JCC

History shows us that the younger guy, regardless if hes better or not, should have the advantage in the superfight.

Ali/Foreman is the exception to this rule which is why Ali is held in such high regard. Vit had every advantage in his favor: Youth, Activity, Power, Hunger and still came up short.

Great post mate. Green K

[GameGod]

Cite where I said that he beat Roy Jones Jr. The 5th on the list? I said he has a win over Roy jones...which he does. Thats a truth, youre a liar and purely lying in the history section and should be banned.

While I admit that you didn't say that he had a win over Roy Jones Jr., you stated that your reasoning for putting Hagler so high up in your list is that he defeated Roy Jones. Here's the quote:

Hagler does have a victory over Roy jones though, which is why hes in my top 10 P4P ATG OF ALL TIME list.

Automatically, this would make people assume you're talking about Roy Jones Jr. Without a doubt, you were hoping that no-one would spot your mistake and simply accept that Hagler did beat Roy Jones, without asking which. Either that or, trawling through Hagler's record to get some idea of what he had done to deserve his (undeniably great) position in history, you found "Roy Jones" and decided to quote that "Hagler has a victory over Roy jones". Either way, if you say something like the above quote, it is only fair for people to assume that you are talking about Roy Jones Jr., because, as you would know if you knew anything about boxing or its history, compared to the greats on Marvin Hagler's resume, "Roy Jones" makes no difference at all. Let me pull up a quick list:

• Sugar Ray Seales - Record of 21-0-0
• Johnny Baldwin - Record of 29-0-0
• Mike Colbert - Record of 23-0-0
• John Mugabi - Record of 25-0-0
• Fulgencio Obelmejias - Record of 30-0-0
• Vito Antuofermo - The WBC & WBA World Champion (x2)
• Alan Minter - The WBC & WBA World Champion
• Wilford Scypion - The IBF World Champion
• Roberto Duran - #1 Lightweight of All-Time
• Thomas Hearns - #2 Junior Middleweight of All-Time

To be frank, any way you look at it, Roy Jones (not Roy Jones Jr., mind) is not one of Hagler's biggest fights, but a trick used by you to try and defend your selections. Come now, admit it. You know nothing about boxing history. If you dare to defend your statement that Hagler's place in the P4P Top 10 is due to a win over Roy Jones, I am more than ready. Of Hagler's 63 opponents, Roy Jones would probably be around #55 in ability. He was absolutely nothing special - in fact, he was so third-rate that it wasn't even a North American title fight.

Also my list is perfect, and Alis a joke, youre a joke, Ali would be murdered right now by today heavies.

You're going in to a much deeper point there. Forget about Ali - perhaps he is overestimated, I don't know. But are you seriously telling me that Mayweather would beat Sugar Ray Robinson? Or even Thomas Hearns, for that matter?

In any case, a P4P ATG list is not defined by who beats who, but by greatness. Therefore, if you do believe that the fighters 40 years ago would be at a severe nutritional or training disadvantage for whatever reason, you have to make mental compensations for that. Ask yourself, what would happen if these fighters had been born today? Lists are based on achievements, not raw abilities. The formula for ranking fighters is their level of dominance multiplied by their quality of opposition - who would actually win makes no difference.

[Toney616]

I understand the logic of rating Joe over Roy because Joe beat Roy, and they were only 3 years apart in age.

It doesnt work like that, a persons physical prime 24-35 (rough estimate), is not the same as a fighters prime, due to the various rates rate of attrition each fighter deals with. It varies depending on:

Number of hard fights
Amount of sparring
The fighters style

Jones was past prime by the Harmon fight and practically shot when he stepped into the ring with Calzaghe. Calzaghe even acknowledges this in his autobiography. Joe simply didn't have the same wear and tear as Jones, i.e he was closer to his fighters prime than Jones, who was a shot fighter at that time. In other words Joes win over Jones is meaningless

[BennyST]

I agree wholeheartedly with your list.



Excellent choices.

[BennyST]

Lewis was scheduled to fight a guy 5 inches shorter than Vitali and had to TRULY switch on 12 days notice. Meanwhile Vitali had been gearing up for a championship bout with Lennox for the past 2 years. He got his wish, and failed.



Wladimir has been KOd 3 times and you have him ranked higher as well. Your list is based on favoritism, not reality. In reality Lennox fought better competition than both brothers and actually defeated everyone he ever faced.

But back to Vitali...If you look throughout history the young ATG has ALWAYS defeated the old ATG.

Johnson beat Jeffries
Tunney beat Dempsey
Camacho beat SRL
Marciano beat Joe Louis
Ali beat Liston
Holmes beat Ali
Tyson beat Holmes
DLH beat JCC

History shows us that the younger guy, regardless if hes better or not, should have the advantage in the superfight.

Ali/Foreman is the exception to this rule which is why Ali is held in such high regard. Vit had every advantage in his favor: Youth, Activity, Power, Hunger and still came up short.

As is Duran/Leonard. It is, nonetheless, very rare for the older ATG to win. Hence why those fights are so great. Duran, much smaller and older one of the great victories in boxing history. Ali, considered near the end, was though to have had little chance against Foreman and yet knocked him out. You could say the same for the fat, old, out of shape Lewis that looked like he came in from a holiday to fight Vitali (if you want to call Vit an ATG HW or even a top ten P4P ATG as in the above list) and still stopped him in a great war.