SBleeder's 100 All-time P4P List

[frankenfrank]

If you are going to accuse someone of being corrupt then you are going to have to present some form of proof. You cant just say that guy did a bad job so he must on been "on the take". How many other fights which Asaro refereed in have you seen?

As for Benn's fouling, yes he fouled, but you are making it out as if it was consistent fouling used as a form of strategy. As I said before the fight plays out the same way without the fouling (with Asaro as the ref)

I never read anything about that ref getting extra money for doing a bad job if this is what you mean .
I don't think I watched any more fights with him . This guy should have been banned from refereeing after that fight.
With a fair refereeing McClellan would have stopped Benn early , and fouling don't have to be consistent to make a critical effect.

[Toney616]

With a fair refereeing McClellan would have stopped Benn early , and fouling don't have to be consistent to make a critical effect.

Out of interest tell me how the fouling (I counted around 5) made a critical effect to the course of that fight?

[Vadrigar.]

Since people didn't care for the pictures, I'll simply post my list. I'll follow up later with some explanations.

1. Ray Robinson

2. Muhammad Ali

3. Harry Greb

4. Sam Langford

5. Henry Armstrong

6. Willie Pep

7. Carlos Monzon

8. Ricardo Lopez

9. Joe Louis

10. Archie Moore

11. Pernell Whitaker

12. Benny Leonard

13. Eder Jofre

14. Joe Gans

15. Ray Leonard

16. Roberto Duran

17. Rocky Marciano

18. **** Tiger

19. Ezzard Charles

20. Tony Canzoneri

21. Bob Fitzsimmons

22. Jimmy Wilde

23. Wilfredo Gomez

24. George Foreman

25. Julio Ceasar Chavez Sr.

26. Gene Tunney

27. Marvin Hagler.

28. Vicente Saldivar

29. Panama Al Brown

30. Sandy Saddler

31. Jimmy McLarin

32. Joe Calzaghe

33. Gilberto Roman

34. Alexis Arguello

35. Barney Ross

36. Larry Holmes

37. Ike Williams

38. Thomas Hearns

39. Young Corbett III

40. Jack Dempsey

41. Emile Griffith

42. Roy Jones, Jr.

43. Rosendo Alvarez

44. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

45. Duilio Loi

46. Abe Attell

47. Tommy Ryan

48. Mickey Walker

49. Sonny Liston

50. Manny Pacquiao

Thanks for the top 50. I've got quite a few questions to ask but what's your reasoning for putting Whitaker ahead of Duran & Ray Leonard?

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

59. Salvador Sanchez



57. Chris John
[IMG]http://i577.***********.com/albums/ss218/equal-life/Chris-John.jpg[/IMG]

59. Salvador Sanchez



57. Chris John









The entire list is a complete and utter joke.



red k given.

[frankenfrank]

Out of interest tell me how the fouling (I counted around 5) made a critical effect to the course of that fight?

You know Jirov ended Mesi's career with rabbit punches.
But I don't blame it only on the fouling , the ref did his share by ignoring Benn's fouling , warning McClellan and giving Benn a break exactly when he needed it , McClellan was already damaged prior to the fight , I know , but Benn's fouling and the referee got the job done.

[qwerty07]

LMFAO Floyd ahead of Manny Pacquiao. Funny stuff!!!

[Toney616]

But I don't blame it only on the fouling , the ref did his share by ignoring Benn's fouling.

Benn commited around 5 fouls (during 10 rounds) in that fight, it was during the clinches that he rabbit punched McClellan. It was the bombs he was landing on McClellans chin that did the damage, although it of course could be argued that those rabbit punches didnt help. Either way without those fouls the fight would of still played out the same way (with the same ref)

, warning McClellan and giving Benn a break exactly when he needed it ,
.

Benn got at best around 5 seconds rest, he easily could of got that by clinching McClellan, which he was doing during that round

McClellan was already damaged prior to the fight , I know , but Benn's fouling and the referee got the job done.

It wasnt Benn fouls that caused the damge to McClellan, it was the power punches he was landing at will on McClellans chin during the course of that fight. Also you cannot know that the ref saved Benn, the guy was a pro how do you know he wouldnt of just clinched (like he was during that round) after he was knocked through the ropes until he cleared his head?

For example Jones had a war with McClellan and finished on his feet, McClellan was also beaten by two guys who didnt have much pro experience either, how can you be so certain that Benn couldnt of survived the first round without the refs help?

[frankenfrank]

Benn commited around 5 fouls (during 10 rounds) in that fight, it was during the clinches that he rabbit punched McClellan. It was the bombs he was landing on McClellans chin that did the damage, although it of course could be argued that those rabbit punches didnt help. Either way without those fouls the fight would of still played out the same way (with the same ref)

They were the bombs that Julian Jackson landed in ther first fight combined with Benn's fouling and only then his punches that did the damage.

Benn got at best around 5 seconds rest, he easily could of got that by clinching McClellan, which he was doing during that round
It wasnt Benn fouls that caused the damge to McClellan, it was the power punches he was landing at will on McClellans chin during the course of that fight. Also you cannot know that the ref saved Benn, the guy was a pro how do you know he wouldnt of just clinched (like he was during that round) after he was knocked through the ropes until he cleared his head?

Those were very crucial 5 seconds which Benn could not have clinched in.
McClellan was about to finish him when the referee separated them and gave Benn the most helpful recovery time he (or anyone else) has ever got.
Don't make Benn something he wasn't . Benn was also stopped by Watson and Eubanks before it and twice by Collins after it and clinching did not save him , it was the referee with both of his asymmetric refereeing of fouls and his separating them exactly when Benn needed a break the most.

For example Jones had a war with McClellan and finished on his feet, McClellan was also beaten by two guys who didnt have much pro experience either, how can you be so certain that Benn couldnt of survived the first round without the refs help?

Jones had how many rounds to survive McClellan ?
No . Benn won primarily because of that referee and then because of Julian Jackson.
How do you know McClellan was ever beaten ? from boxrec ?
All boxrec tells is a close decision in one of these fights.

[Toney616]

They were the bombs that Julian Jackson landed in ther first fight combined with Benn's fouling and only then his punches that did the damage.

Wrong
Let me guess you are quoting unverified internet rumours again, right? How about a source to back this stuff up? Benn commited one foul in the second round, which was a rabbit punch during one of the many clinches in that round. It was during that round that the damage to McClellan was done

Those were very crucial 5 seconds which Benn could not have clinched in.McClellan was about to finish him when the referee separated them and gave Benn the most helpful recovery time he (or anyone else) has ever got.

Stop
The only way you can know that is if you had a crystal ball which allowed you to see alternative time lines, there is no way you can know that Benn couldn't of got through that round. For example there were plenty of other times which Benn was badly hurt and he survived by clinching. Also Benn was dropped again in round 8 and he survived without the ref saving him, so that also hurts your argument

Don't make Benn something he wasn't . Benn was also stopped by Watson and Eubanks before it and twice by Collins after it and clinching did not save him

Stop boxrecing
Watson: If you watch that fight you would know that Benn, was basically counted out due to exhaustion during the Watson fight. He was sitting on the floor fully conscious when he got counted out think Hagler-Mugabi

Eubank I:It was his right eye which was closed during the Eubank fight, which stopped him from seeing alot of Eubanks bombs which was the reason he got stopped during that fight, Steele had seen enough so he decided to stop it. Benn had got through a lot of rough patches during that fight by clinching

Collins I: he threw a right hook, which missed and he twisted his ankle which is why that fight was stopped

Collins II: He was a shot fighter taking too much punishment so his team threw in the towel

, it was the referee with both of his asymmetric refereeing of fouls and his separating them exactly when Benn needed a break the most.

Dude, lol
He was saved by the ref once, in that fight which was during the first round. Benn got warnings for his fouls but never had a point docked (which he should of got) Interesting that you never talk about McClellans fouls during that fight either

Jones had how many rounds to survive McClellan ?

The fact that Jones who doesnt have the best chin got through the first round is all you need to know

No . Benn won primarily because of that referee and then because of Julian Jackson.

And your proof is?
The fact that Benn was still there in the 10th round, hurts your case because he survived numerous difficult moments later in that fight by clinching

How do you know McClellan was ever beaten ? from boxrec ?
All boxrec tells is a close decision in one of these fights.

Nope
I read a book which covers McClellan's life and his conversations with his trainer Stanley Johnson during the breaks between rounds, in the Benn fight. I dont need Boxrec to find out about fighters. Which is why I keep saying the fight plays out the same way without Benn's fouls. Obviously I know something which Im not telling you. I have also given you ample time to go into detail about that fight, which I have noticed you haven't. Be honest, you havent watched that fight either have you?

[frankenfrank]

Wrong
Let me guess you are quoting unverified internet rumours again, right? How about a source to back this stuff up? Benn commited one foul in the second round, which was a rabbit punch during one of the many clinches in that round. It was during that round that the damage to McClellan was done

And in your books you never read about McClellan complains about headaches after the first Jackson fight and before the Benn fight.
Not surprising.

Stop
The only way you can know that is if you had a crystal ball which allowed you to see alternative time lines, there is no way you can know that Benn couldn't of got through that round. For example there were plenty of other times which Benn was badly hurt and he survived by clinching. Also Benn was dropped again in round 8 and he survived without the ref saving him, so that also hurts your argument

Benn was hurt worse in the first round against McClellan.
Lucky him he had that referee.

Stop boxrecing
Watson: If you watch that fight you would know that Benn, was basically counted out due to exhaustion during the Watson fight. He was sitting on the floor fully conscious when he got counted out think Hagler-Mugabi

Benn was too hurt to get up , conscious maybe , but clear he was not.

Eubank I:It was his right eye which was closed during the Eubank fight, which stopped him from seeing alot of Eubanks bombs which was the reason he got stopped during that fight, Steele had seen enough so he decided to stop it. Benn had got through a lot of rough patches during that fight by clinching

But McClellan still hurt him (even) worse in their first round.

Collins I: he threw a right hook, which missed and he twisted his ankle which is why that fight was stopped

Collins II: He was a shot fighter taking too much punishment so his team threw in the towel

Wonder why he was shot , while Collins whom is his age and went through rough fights also was not shot then ?

Dude, lol
He was saved by the ref once, in that fight which was during the first round. Benn got warnings for his fouls but never had a point docked (which he should of got) Interesting that you never talk about McClellans fouls during that fight either

McClellan was deducted a point , wasn't he ? which is another pressing and discouraging thing.

The fact that Jones who doesnt have the best chin got through the first round is all you need to know

And your proof is?
The fact that Benn was still there in the 10th round, hurts your case because he survived numerous difficult moments later in that fight by clinching

Nope
I read a book which covers McClellan's life and his conversations with his trainer Stanley Johnson during the breaks between rounds, in the Benn fight. I dont need Boxrec to find out about fighters. Which is why I keep saying the fight plays out the same way without Benn's fouls. Obviously I know something which Im not telling you. I have also given you ample time to go into detail about that fight, which I have noticed you haven't. Be honest, you havent watched that fight either have you?

So keep don't telling. Just STFU and GTFOH.