SBleeder's 100 All-time P4P List

[GameGod]

The main problems are:

• Ricky Hatton, Corrales, Nigel Benn, Chris John (why are they even on the list?)
• Tyson should be higher
• Bernard Hopkins should be a bit lower

Also, throw away the pictures of the fighters and replace them with some sound reasoning.

[BennyST]

Benn shouldn't be in any top 100 list. Chris John as a top 100 is just crazy. I mean really, he hasn't beaten anyone of note apart from Juan M. Marquez in his hometown in what was widely considered a highly disputable decision. He is still active also.

The worst I've seen so far though is Hatton. He is not, in any way, shape or form a top 100 P4P fighter. At 140, there are many fighters who are above him in terms of P4P greatness that should be above him. He is not a P4P great.

A top 100 list is of the greatest fighters ever. Hatton is among the most popular champions of our age but is not even a great champion of our age. He was just a good, decent champion who happened to be very popular. A top 100 lost will, or should anyway, be made up entirely of HOFers. John, Benn and Hatton are not HOFers.

You could make an argument for Benn I guess but not for the other two. I mean, think about it for a minute. How do Been, Hatton and John make the cut and are even above someone like Mike McCallum? Well, Hatton is two places below him but that's crazy! McCallum, and Hatton as equals? John and Been better? I would suggest some major revision. Apart from a few odd choices, which is just my opinion, it looks ok.

Nonetheless, it takes a lot of work and thought to do these lists and while we will all disagree and have our complaints, I applaud you for making one up and putting it up here for folks to see and comment on.

[Toney616]

You can also ignore the fact Collins had brain damage too by that time , or do you assume he had his brain damage after the Benn fights ?

Collins didnt have brain damage going into the Benn fights, I challenge you to prove me wrong i.e quote sources/links

And an ankle injury can be a result of a punch , you know ?

Benn threw a right hook which missed Collins, he was off balance, so he fell and twisted his ankle

Both men , especially Eubanks were not more shot than Collins by the (respective) times they fought him.

Benn was past prime by the the Wharton fight, he was practically shot after the McClellan fight and had no business being in a ring after that.

Eubank never fully recovered from the Watson II fight, the fact that Collins was able to outwork him is a clear indication that he was no longer the fighter he once was, but as I said before it is still a good win for Collins

Remember Collins also fought Reggie Johnson , Mike McCallum and Sumbu Kalambay and Tony Thornton prior to facing them .

Boxrecing again I see
Thorton (aka the punching postman) is a journeyman.

Mike McCallum wasnt a big puncher at mw, he outboxed Collins to win that fight. I had McCallum dominating the first half of the fight with Collins coming on strong in the last half.

Collins-Johnson was a close fight with Johnson doing just enough to get the nod.

Haven't seen the Kalamby fight so I can't comment. To the best of my knowledge Collins never took a bad beating in any of those fights, so your list proves what exactly?

[Toney616]

But hey, I bet yours would be worse.

I would use more than Boxrec to evaluate a fighters resume, unlike you

[frankenfrank]

2 SBleeder : don't listen to them , it is good you posted their pics , I appreciate your effort for it , a few of them may be unfamiliar to some posters including myself .

[frankenfrank]

I would use more than Boxrec to evaluate a fighters resume, unlike you

Wrong again , d fuck u know ?

[frankenfrank]

Collins didnt have brain damage going into the Benn fights, I challenge you to prove me wrong i.e quote sources/links

So when do you think he got his brain damage ? during the Benn fights or after them ? if your answer will be during , so maybe you should reexamine your claim about Benn being that shot by that time.

Benn threw a right hook which missed Collins, he was off balance, so he fell and twisted his ankle

Benn was no Michael Grant or Jameel McCline , not even Orlin Norris , for a man his size if he could fall that hard from missing a punch and was so weak ,
then this is a very legitimate TKO loss , such a weak man deserves to lose .
Yes I watched some of his fights , I know he was considered a big puncher
but I say more due to his technique : wide , full swinging punching than other reasons. To get injured from that in his size means nothing other than
(physical) weakness by definition.

Benn was past prime by the the Wharton fight, he was practically shot after the McClellan fight and had no business being in a ring after that.

Eubank never fully recovered from the Watson II fight, the fact that Collins was able to outwork him is a clear indication that he was no longer the fighter he once was, but as I said before it is still a good win for Collins

Eubanks was known for stamina issues and a smart lazy pace , Collins outworking him meant **** about him being prime or not.

Boxrecing again I see
Thorton (aka the punching postman) is a journeyman.

Which you base upon ? let me guess , watching him fight , right ?

Mike McCallum wasnt a big puncher at mw, he outboxed Collins to win that fight. I had McCallum dominating the first half of the fight with Collins coming on strong in the last half.

Collins-Johnson was a close fight with Johnson doing just enough to get the nod.

Haven't seen the Kalamby fight so I can't comment. To the best of my knowledge Collins never took a bad beating in any of those fights, so your list proves what exactly?

I remember he took some punishment against McCallum , whom another one of his opponents : Michael Watson suffered brain damage too.
I agree that McCallum was not a big puncher at MW , but if he landed enough
he could cause his damage .

[SBleeder]

Since people didn't care for the pictures, I'll simply post my list. I'll follow up later with some explanations.

1. Ray Robinson

2. Muhammad Ali

3. Harry Greb

4. Sam Langford

5. Henry Armstrong

6. Willie Pep

7. Carlos Monzon

8. Ricardo Lopez

9. Joe Louis

10. Archie Moore

11. Pernell Whitaker

12. Benny Leonard

13. Eder Jofre

14. Joe Gans

15. Ray Leonard

16. Roberto Duran

17. Rocky Marciano

18. **** Tiger

19. Ezzard Charles

20. Tony Canzoneri

21. Bob Fitzsimmons

22. Jimmy Wilde

23. Wilfredo Gomez

24. George Foreman

25. Julio Ceasar Chavez Sr.

26. Gene Tunney

27. Marvin Hagler.

28. Vicente Saldivar

29. Panama Al Brown

30. Sandy Saddler

31. Jimmy McLarin

32. Joe Calzaghe

33. Gilberto Roman

34. Alexis Arguello

35. Barney Ross

36. Larry Holmes

37. Ike Williams

38. Thomas Hearns

39. Young Corbett III

40. Jack Dempsey

41. Emile Griffith

42. Roy Jones, Jr.

43. Rosendo Alvarez

44. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

45. Duilio Loi

46. Abe Attell

47. Tommy Ryan

48. Mickey Walker

49. Sonny Liston

50. Manny Pacquiao

[Toney616]

So when do you think he got his brain damage ? during the Benn fights or after them ? if your answer will be during , so maybe you should reexamine your claim about Benn being that shot by that time.

What brain damage are you talking about and how about a source as well?

To get injured from that in his size means nothing other than
(physical) weakness by definition.

You don't have to fall hard to injure yourself, maybe he had injured himself previously or something like that. Either way it doesn't really matter, Benn was a shot fighter at that point in his career

Eubanks was known for stamina issues and a smart lazy pace , Collins outworking him meant **** about him being prime or not.

How about the fact that he never fully recovered from the Watson II fight, a fact which was made very obvious during the later rounds of the Collins I fight (and I'm not talking about his stamina)

Which you base upon ? let me guess , watching him fight , right ?

How about the fact that he tended to come up short when he started to fight the top fighters? How about the fact that he had a day job as a postman?

I remember he took some punishment against McCallum , whom another one of his opponents : Michael Watson suffered brain damage too.

He didnt take a bad beating in that fight
The Eubank-Watson II fight bears no relevance to this topic

[frankenfrank]

What brain damage are you talking about and how about a source as well?

The brain damage that prevented him from facing Calzaghe , it should have been known to someone like you whom some 90% of his knowledge is about
the MW-SMW divisions of the 90s , Collins collapsed during his training camp for his supposed fight against Calzaghe when the winner should have gotten a shot at Roy Jones , the one who landed that final blow was Howard Eastman if I'm not wrong , I am not a great e-searcher , and esb , like bs restricted
the search of one's posts to a mere last 500 , so I know if I will try to dig deep in my account there , I will still not find it.
But it is quite of a known fact , especially to someone like you , who uses so many other sources than just a boxrec , always a surprise when a boxrec warrior like myself catches the likes of you , great boxing historian , off guard :yep: , you should really be ashamed of yourself and do your homework next time before trying to argue with me.

You don't have to fall hard to injure yourself, maybe he had injured himself previously or something like that. Either way it doeant really matter, Benn was a shot fighter at that point in his career

I don't think having your head dead has a lot to do with having weak feet.
Benn was weak , not because he was shot , Benn was stopped in his prime also , Collins would have always beaten him.

How about the fact that he never fully recovered from the Watson II fight, a fact which was made very obvious in the Collins I fight

How about the fact that he tended to come up short when he started to fight the top fighters? How about the fact that he had a day job as a postman?

Tony Thornton was a decent fighter , maybe not a top 20 all time MW
(oops , I forgot , you don't do lists) , but a durable quality opponent during his prime.

He didnt take a bad beating in that fight
The Eubank-Watson II fight bears no relevance to this topic

I meant McCallum possibly caused a significant part of the damage done to Watson and Collins , I did watch McCallum-Collins , and McCallum did beat him in the beginning , what happened later in the fight does not take a lot from the damage he took early in the fight.