Poet's top 20 P4P

[#1Assassin]

It's not a legit excuse IMO. It can never be Maxims fault that Robinson paced himself poorly.

its obvious the heat worked to maxims benefit, it sust common sense.

almost anytime one man is considerably stronger than the other the strong man takes the centre of the ring, not using alot of energy. meanwhile the other man moves around the ring to neutralize his strenght, using up more energy in the process.

maxim being much bigger than ray he already had an advantage, the heat made it an even bigger advantage. and considering how easily robinson was winning and how he never showed showed a inability to finish fights under normal circumstances, u gotta admitt the heat won maxim that fight.

[BattlingNelson]

Being the naturally bigger man fighting in searing heat gives your body the advantage over the smaller man.

You present this as a fact. Do you have a source?

[BattlingNelson]

its obvious the heat worked to maxims benefit, it sust common sense.

almost anytime one man is considerably stronger than the other the strong man takes the centre of the ring, not using alot of energy. meanwhile the other man moves around the ring to neutralize his strenght, using up more energy in the process.

maxim being much bigger than ray he already had an advantage, the heat made it an even bigger advantage. and considering how easily robinson was winning and how he never showed showed a inability to finish fights under normal circumstances, u gotta admitt the heat won maxim that fight.

Since Robinson was winning so easy he should have taken a little time off in a couple of rounds and then he would have been fine don't you think?

[Toney616]

1. Sam Langford
2. Mike Tyson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Walcott
5. Roberto Duran
6. Ray Leonard
7. Chris Byrd
8. Orlin Norris
9. Young Peter Jackson
10. James Toney

11. Ray Robinson
12. Charley Burley
13. Marlon Starling
14. Jose Luis Lopez
15. Ike Quartery
16. Manny Pacquiao
17. Harry Greb
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Hector Camacho
20. Ezzard Charles

21. Archie Moore
22. Rocky Marciano
23. Jorge Fernando Castro
24. Simon Brown
25. David Tua
26. Doug Jones
27. Joe Frazier
28. Muhammad Qawi
29. Salvador Sanchez
30. Michael Spinks


31. Juan Manuel Marquez
32. Evander Holyfield
33. Julio Cesar Chavez
34. Oscar Delahoya
35. Vinny Pazienza
36. Arnold Cream
37. Ronald Wright
38. Shane Mosley
39. Floyd Mayweather
40. Pernell Whitaker

41. Carmen Basilio
42. Vince Phillips
43. Meldrick Taylor
44. Miguel Cotto
45. Ricky Hatton
46. Kotsya Tszyu

.

Vinny Paz isnt high enough, also how comes Richard Frazier isnt on that list?

His mine
1 Byrant Brannon
2 Glen Kelly
3 Morrade Hakkar
4 Byrant Brannon again
5 Dan Sherry
7 Bruce Sheldon
8 Peter Mcneely
9 Ray close
10 Byrant Brannon again
11 cab driver
12 lorry driver
13 librarian
14 random binman
15 Byrant Brannon again

[r.burgundy]

I am not absolutely sure about it , but :
Chris Byrd (6" , natural 175lber) fought :
Vitali Klitschko , Wladimir Klitschko (*2) , Jameel McCline , Andrezj Golota ,
Ike Ibeabuchi , David Tua , Ross Puritty , Alexander Povetkin as well as other dangerous opponents.

Orlin Norris (5'9" , natural 200lber) fought :
Vitali Klitschko , Henry Akiwande , Tony Tucker (*2) , Andrezj Golota , Oliver McCall , Brian Nielsen , Jesse Fergusson (and don't tell me he was not an upset able opponent) as well as other much bigger than himself and quality opponents.


Were there any fighters since Sam Langford , whom faced such a huge physical adversity and disadvantage so frequently ?

I say no. No one at all (since Langford) . Not even James Toney.
And if you consider the outcomes of their fights against that monsterous opposition , you may find they actually did quite good , these are the best examples of P4P fighters. And no disrespect to Robinson , but he did enjoy size advantage over most of his opponents and was stopped by Joey Maxim whom was bigger than himself , but much less bigger than Tucker , Akiwande , Vitali and even Golota were compared to Norris. Robinson also went 1:1 in split decisions against a smaller former welterweight in Carmen Basilio .

Simon Brown and Castro are great examples of P4P greatness if you just read their records carefully enough.
These are 4 great P4P fighters , what can you claim against it ?

chris byrd fought a tough group but he didnt win many,same with norris.its not just about who you fought,but who you beat.by your logic,denarcus corley should be #1 cause he fought cotto,mayweather,judah,bailey,alexander,witter and is about to fight maidaina next

simon brown has beat absolutey nobody.he fought good fighters but never won
castro knocked out all of argentina.his 1 good win is over jackson who was towards tha end of his career

[r.burgundy]

poet off the top of my head my top 20 would be
ali
ray leonard
ray robinson
armstrong
ellorde
duran
ezzard charles
floyd patterson
hopkins
foreman
holyfield
langford
tyson
eric morrales
whitaker
holmes
de la hoya
morrales
jones jr

[HaglerSteelChin]

If i was doing an off the wall list i would include Juan La Porte who was better than his record would indicate. I know many disagree but i thought he beat Chavez by a point or two in their match, Chavez also could have been deducted a second point for another low blow in round 12. He also gave Salvador Sanchez a game match for 15 rounds. Being only briefly a featherweight champion didn't give him the respect he deserved.

If Juan Roldan wouldn't get the eye injury who knows how his fight with Hagler would have turned out? He also came close to finishing THomas Hearns. Probably would have fared better as JMW.

David Tua beat like 4 former HW champions as Maskaev, Rahman, Moorer, and Ruiz. He also beat Fres Oquendo who was robbed against Chris Byrd, Tua is also a P4P guy on my off the wall list.

[frankenfrank]

chris byrd fought a tough group but he didnt win many,same with norris.its not just about who you fought,but who you beat.by your logic,denarcus corley should be #1 cause he fought cotto,mayweather,judah,bailey,alexander,witter and is about to fight maidaina next

simon brown has beat absolutey nobody.he fought good fighters but never won
castro knocked out all of argentina.his 1 good win is over jackson who was towards tha end of his career

By my logic , Corley would still not make the top 50.
Who are Bailey , Alexander , Witter and Maidana ? and I really not appreciate Judah that much.
Simon Brown KOd Terry Norris and Bobby Joe Young , stopped Maurice Blocker and Jorge Vaca , decisioned Luis Santana , not really "beat absolutely nobody" and in his prime he only lost a split decision to Marlon Starling , another fighter in my list.

Castro has 2 wins over John David Jackson , one of which by stoppage , and 2 disputable split decisions over Reggie Johnson which must still be respected , as it was a prime Reggie Johnson , he also has a stoppage win over a much younger , fresher and bigger former IBF CW champion Imamu Mayfield at a CW
title elimination , remember that Castro is originally a LMW (!) ,
and while being 40 he avenged his stoppage loss to Jose Luis Herrerra at 175
by way of a quicker stoppage , also he stopped LHW contender Derrick Harmon at LHW , another stoppage win over a younger , fresher and much bigger opponent , not to mention other fights when he lasted the distance against much bigger , younger and fresher opponents .
You should really study a little about a fighter before you raise such rude comments against him , if anything , I underrated him in my list .
Norris and Byrd fighting the men they fought (Norris outpointed Tucker and McCall among a few others) = Ray Robinson beating Michael Spinks , and
Norris losing on points to Golota and Akiwande = Robinson losing a competitive
fight on points to Rid**** Bowe , Lewis and the Klitschkos .
Do you expect Robinson to last the distance against them ? I don't.
But (the 5'9") Norris lasted 12 against Golota , Tucker and Akiwande , actually
it can be claimed that he won both of his fights against Tucker and not just the second (I did watch his first fight against Tucker and his fight against Golota and didn't manage to get the second , nor his other fights).
Norris is not even a safety first fighter .
Byrd's stoppage win over VWK is possibly legit , as Vitali may have injured himself , while trying to hit Byrd .
Byrd lasted the distance against big punching big men such as WK , McCline and Golota not to mention he lasted the distance and won (deservedly or not)
decisions against Rahman , Tua and Holyfield (shot but still fought on many
years on) .
You chose to discredit 4 of the greatest P4P by definition fighters ever , do your homework before discrediting .

[frankenfrank]

Vinny Paz isnt high enough, also how comes Richard Frazier isnt on that list?

His mine
1 Byrant Brannon
2 Glen Kelly
3 Morrade Hakkar
4 Byrant Brannon again
5 Dan Sherry
7 Bruce Sheldon
8 Peter Mcneely
9 Ray close
10 Byrant Brannon again
11 cab driver
12 lorry driver
13 librarian
14 random binman
15 Byrant Brannon again

Not much worse than I thought it would be :yep: .

[frankenfrank]

poet off the top of my head my top 20 would be
ali
ray leonard
ray robinson
armstrong
ellorde
duran
ezzard charles
floyd patterson
hopkins
foreman
holyfield
langford
tyson
eric morrales
whitaker
holmes
de la hoya
morrales
jones jr

Ali , Foreman , Lewis , Holmes , Louis and the Klitschkos are not good examples for P4P fighters as they enjoyed size advantage over most of their opponents .
Hopkins is a great foulist , that's all , he won the 10 dirtiest fighters ever thread I made somewhere else .

You have Morrales twice (Eric and someone else ?) yet no Pacquiao , JMM and Barrerra ?
Langford too low .
Jones Jr. a ducker , PED user and a chinny fighter all in one but still a better choice than Hopkins , at least under the rules of boxing he is .

Patterson above Langford and Tyson ? boy o boy.