Joe Calzaghe's Greatness?

[r.burgundy]

Re Harry Greb we might not have SEEN him beat great MW's but the records show he did but neither of us have seen BHop beat a great MW either have we?

OK lets turn the question around who has Hopkins beat that makes you rate him as the best MW in history?
Trinidad or DLH who were pumped up welters?
Joppy who lost to one of those pumped up welters?
Brown who was shot?
The best fighter he fought at MW who wasn't shot or punching above his weight was RJJ
You could argue that BHop wasn't prime but Jones did beat him one handed.

as we all know great is a matter of opinion.so that brings me to 1 of my fav quotes from ali."we got it right here on t.v.television is exposing these guys"
he was speaking on louis and dempsey i believe.but it sums up what i think.alot of "great" fighters had extraordinary records but we have no clue of who they were doing it against.and alotta them would be exposed.fans always try an cling to some strange idea these guys like greb fought nothing but world class killers.thats b.s.i've seen tunney.and he's a bum.these dudes fight like the irishmen in movies.its comical

guys on here actually try and rate quarry as a great heavy.based on what,i have not a clue
but anyway as for bernard,true his run at m.w wasnt filled with atg's but he did beat 2 of them in oscar,and tito,beat the linear champ in tarver at lhw and beat the linear champ in pavlik who is about 15 years younger.thats 3 linear champs he's beat.all of those fights he was an underdog.

as has been pointed out before,louis hasnt not beaten a prime atg heavy.he gets props for his long title reign.if thats good enough to get him into a top 10 atg list it should be good enough for bernard,who has definitely fought tougher comp than louis,and that isnt even debateable.

as for monzon,and hagler,they are 2 and 3 on my list.based strictly off of m.w,i rate hopkins ahead cause i feel he has the stronger resume and would beat both of them.i think haglers resume is a bit better than monzon but i think monzon would beat him

[r.burgundy]

Come on, man. I know you're agreeing with me and all, but Hopkins is NOWHERE near Joe Louis. I don't even have him as a top ten middleweight. That division has been stacked through history.

if you dont have hop as a top m.w your on something.yes its been stacked buts 1 of those divisions like hw.its rarely stacked at the same timeto me the best era was the late 80's to mid 90's with guys like mccella,nunn,toney,jones,etc etc

[BigStereotype]

Hagler, Robinson, Monson, Hagler, Burley, Jones Jr, LaMotta, Walker, Charles, Toney, Greb (I've never seen him, but this is greatness, not H2H)...the list goes on. Hopkins was great, but that was a seriously good division.

[pesticid]

Zaghe was the greatest cocckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk on the block. Can't anybody beat him. He made Hopkins his girl and that's a fact. Everybody on Hops nuts, he's old school, he's hard, he's an ex-con, blah, blah. Zaghe skimmed him at the press, at the weigh-in and at the fight.

[BigStereotype]

as we all know great is a matter of opinion.so that brings me to 1 of my fav quotes from ali."we got it right here on t.v.television is exposing these guys"
he was speaking on louis and dempsey i believe.but it sums up what i think.alot of "great" fighters had extraordinary records but we have no clue of who they were doing it against.and alotta them would be exposed.fans always try an cling to some strange idea these guys like greb fought nothing but world class killers.thats b.s.i've seen tunney.and he's a bum.these dudes fight like the irishmen in movies.its comical

guys on here actually try and rate quarry as a great heavy.based on what,i have not a clue
but anyway as for bernard,true his run at m.w wasnt filled with atg's but he did beat 2 of them in oscar,and tito,beat the linear champ in tarver at lhw and beat the linear champ in pavlik who is about 15 years younger.thats 3 linear champs he's beat.all of those fights he was an underdog.

as has been pointed out before,louis hasnt not beaten a prime atg heavy.he gets props for his long title reign.if thats good enough to get him into a top 10 atg list it should be good enough for bernard,who has definitely fought tougher comp than louis,and that isnt even debateable.

as for monzon,and hagler,they are 2 and 3 on my list.based strictly off of m.w,i rate hopkins ahead cause i feel he has the stronger resume and would beat both of them.i think haglers resume is a bit better than monzon but i think monzon would beat him

Hopkins even said that Hagler would whoop his ass. I think he said "it would have been a great fight, we both would have ended up in the emergency room" to which Hagler replied "Yeah, I would have visited him." Hagler's a better boxer, heavier hitter, better chin, so where exactly does Hopkins have the advantage? And Hagler has one huge name on his resume that Hopkins can't match: Thomas Hearns.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

as has been pointed out before,louis hasnt not beaten a prime atg heavy.he gets props for his long title reign.if thats good enough to get him into a top 10 atg list it should be good enough for bernard,who has definitely fought tougher comp than louis,and that isnt even debateable.

Who did Hopkins beat that ranks higher all time at middleweight than Max Schmeling does at heavyweight, or Walcott for that matter? Billy Conn also rates higher p4p than anybody Hopkins has fought.

[BennyST]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;8172137]

Who did Hopkins beat that ranks higher all time at middleweight than Max Schmeling does at heavyweight, or Walcott for that matter? Billy Conn also rates higher p4p than anybody Hopkins has fought.

Yo boyyyy, all dem dudes is bumz right they dont got **** on my boy even i could beat dem dudes dey fight like old women yo right Hop beat mofos in one round dat dem dudes couldnt beat in fifty rounds like yo winky beats schmeling whoever dat is and walcott whoever dat is by KO pwn LAMO pavlik has been on tv and i aint never seen billy conn on hbo pavlik pwns him by KO in one round dem dudes dat fought a thousand years when hbo wasnt on cant fight Hop invented hbo and boxing boyyyya. Boom shakalaka boom!

[r.burgundy]

Hopkins even said that Hagler would whoop his ass. I think he said "it would have been a great fight, we both would have ended up in the emergency room" to which Hagler replied "Yeah, I would have visited him." Hagler's a better boxer, heavier hitter, better chin, so where exactly does Hopkins have the advantage? And Hagler has one huge name on his resume that Hopkins can't match: Thomas Hearns.

hopkins never said that lol.he just gave his thoughts on how fights with hagler,and monzon plays out.he actually said he'd beat both,but it would be tough.

hagler wasnt a heavier hitter than young hopkins and hopkins would have a huge size advantage.hagler never fought anybody his size with a punch so we dont know how his chin would hold up.hagler is in no way shape or form more skiled than hopkins.hopkins can make any fight into his type of fight unlike hagler.hagler beat the alcohol outta duran for a good 13 rounds and coulndt put him out,mugabi went 11 and landed some great shots,so im not sold on this whole hagler punching power thing.majority of hags foes were in the 5'8 range so he never faced any real physical adversity.many a lesser fighter than hops was able to find haglers chin.roldan was able to land alotta great shots and hes the = of mayorga.only fights ive really seen hops get hit clean were against mercado when he was young an jones who are both light years ahead of any mw hagler fought.

tito trinidad is pretty close to hearns,but like i said hagler fought 3 atg's in oscar,tito,and jones.he went 2 for 3 with 2 k.o's over guys who hadnt been stopped.hagler fought 3 atg and went 2 for 3 also but against a lw and a ww.he never faced another atg mw.which isnt his fault as there wrent any others but he never moved up to challenge himself either and quit after the loss to sugar ray

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=BennyST;8173521]

Yo boyyyy, all dem dudes is bumz right they dont got **** on my boy even i could beat dem dudes dey fight like old women yo right Hop beat mofos in one round dat dem dudes couldnt beat in fifty rounds like yo winky beats schmeling whoever dat is and walcott whoever dat is by KO pwn LAMO pavlik has been on tv and i aint never seen billy conn on hbo pavlik pwns him by KO in one round dem dudes dat fought a thousand years when hbo wasnt on cant fight Hop invented hbo and boxing boyyyya. Boom shakalaka boom!

Damn, I thought I clicked on NSB by mistake and did a double take when I saw your screen name after reading this. Lol, but yeah, this is the deluded self serving logic that you get with many posters around here. Funny stuff Benny!

[r.burgundy]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;8172137]

Who did Hopkins beat that ranks higher all time at middleweight than Max Schmeling does at heavyweight, or Walcott for that matter? Billy Conn also rates higher p4p than anybody Hopkins has fought.

come on now jab.i know you love to debate but please,lets not try and make max schmeling out for anything other than a hype job.he sucks.plain and simple.how on earth does conn rank higher than tito,oscar,jones or tarver.unless you mean atg lb 4 lb?or did ypu mean at the time they fought?

you know i like conn and at welter theres no way possible to put him ahead of tito or oscar.at lhw i couldnt put him above tarver.beating jones who dominated the lb 4 lb rankings for a decade trumps anything conn did easily.conns 1 of my few old favs but he's also 1 of the least accomplished