Muhammad Ali vs The Supersized Heavyweights

[Vadrigar.]

Just wondering but what do you mean by this ?, Schmeling was a good man and a gentleman. He served in the army under the **** flag (< I'm guessing this is what you're referring too in some way) but he was in no way a **** himself and he even risked his own life to save two ***ish boys, the Lewins, and smuggled them out of Germany.
He helped Joe Louis more then his own country did and did plenty of other good things.

Max Schmeling is a bad example to use for describing what Knn is like lol who seems to hate any boxer pre- Oversized talentless era and won't stop untill he has discredited Ali of everything he did.

Jus' Sayin.

Sorry, I realised that was a silly comparison. Post edited.

[NChristo]

Sorry, I realised that was a silly comparison. Post edited.

Haha no problem, if you don't know much about Schmeling and just look at him on the surface then I kind of see what you mean.

[boxing boy]

knn

I know alot of older people in there 70's who have cataracts in BOTH eyes and have no trouble driving there cars,or seeing other people very easily.Even after having cataracts for many years.

Joe Frazier had THE BEGINNING of a cataract in ONE eye,and had no trouble driving his car or being able to see other people very easy.It was only after 12 rounds of fighting and getting hit many times by Muhammad Ali that Frazier started having trouble seeing from his eyes swelling shut.

It is easy to see your way of trying to justify your bias.Looking to down the opponents of fighters you are comparing to other fighters.Even going as far as making excuses to down play the victories of certain fights like Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier,and George Foreman.You are truly the excuse man.

[knn]

I know alot of older people in there 70's who have cataracts in BOTH eyes and have no trouble driving there cars,or seeing other people very easily.Even after having cataracts for many years.

Your experience with older people is irrelevant. Or are you Frazier's doctor?

Joe Frazier had THE BEGINNING of a cataract in ONE eye,and had no trouble driving his car or being able to see other people very easy.

Did you just compare driving a car with fighting against Ali?

It is easy to see your way of trying to justify your bias. Looking to down the opponents of fighters you are comparing to other fighters. Even going as far as making excuses to down play the victories of certain fights like Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.You are truly the excuse man.

Just read all your post above. Is there actually a single "factual Frazier statement"? All I read is "No, no, Frazier was fine because he could drive a car" and "Please don't tell us that Sonny was X and Frazier was Y".

And, yes, I am OBVIOUSLY DOWNGRADING ALI's wins. No need to tell me that. That's my main purpose on this site since I want to find out what FACTS CLAYtons have in support of Ali.

But while I downvalue Ali's opponents by facts and their ACTUAL RECORD (Cleveland was gunshot, Frazier was a featherfist) YOU upvalue them by "your experience" with "older people".

[knn]

4th duck of argument.

Which post did I duck?

[Vadrigar.]

Which post did I duck?

5th duck of argument

[knn]

5th duck of argument

Listen, this is the last time I ask you. You also play the same game with other guys. You simply say "I am waiting for an answer" but never tell the question.

So for the last time: "What argument?"

[boxing boy]

Your experience with older people is irrelevant. Or are you Frazier's doctor?


Did you just compare driving a car with fighting against Ali?


Just read all your post above. Is there actually a single "factual Frazier statement"? All I read is "No, no, Frazier was fine because he could drive a car" and "Please don't tell us that Sonny was X and Frazier was Y".

And, yes, I am OBVIOUSLY DOWNGRADING ALI's wins. No need to tell me that. That's my main purpose on this site since I want to find out what FACTS CLAYtons have in support of Ali.

But while I downvalue Ali's opponents by facts and their ACTUAL RECORD (Cleveland was gunshot, Frazier was a featherfist) YOU upvalue them by "your experience" with "older people".

Put this on your FACT sheet.......

Muhammad Ali beat Joe Frazier when he was 7 and 8 years past his prime!

Muhammad Ali beat George Foreman when he was 7 years past his prime!

These are FACTS.Can you imagine Ali fighting them in his Prime?

I bet you will not answer this question.

Young 22 year old Cassius Clay with only 19 fights beats Sonny Liston easy!

Clay was not yet in his Prime when he was 25 in 1967.

Can you imagine what a 1967 Muhammad Ali would have done to Liston?

I bet you will not answer this either.

BTW-It is easier to see a person right in front of you than drive a car idiot.

Here are FACTS that you can not refute.So I quess I will get only "excuses" from the excuse man.How can you downgrade Ali's big wins when he was way past his prime when he beat them? I notice you never mention that Muhammad Ali was fighting after his 3 1/2 year lay-off when beating Foreman and Frazier twice?

[knn]

Put this on your FACT sheet.......
Muhammad Ali beat Joe Frazier when he was 7 and 8 years past his prime!

Where's the fact? It's your personal opinion about Ali's prime.

Muhammad Ali beat George Foreman when he was 7 years past his prime!

Again no facts.

These are FACTS.Can you imagine Ali fighting them in his Prime?

I can imagine a lot of things. Especially that 1967 was NOT Ali's prime. Actually you have no proof when Ali's prime was. Of course he got worse and worse in the 70ies, but that's because he was more and more an OVERWEIGHT.

Young 22 year old Cassius Clay with only 19 fights beats Sonny Liston easy!

Yeah so? Why does Liston always pop up?

Clay was not yet in his Prime when he was 25 in 1967.

Again, pure speculation.

Can you imagine what a 1967 Muhammad Ali would have done to Liston?

But you see: You are doing some self-referencing mind melt here: You find excuses for performances ("He wasn't in his prime anymore") and upvaluing his opponents ("He wasn't in his prime yet").

I could claim the direct opposite: Clay was in his prime when he won Olympic Gold and it was going downhill ever since but the opponents of the 70ies ****** so much that Clay had an easy game. You see it works both ways: Just like you used some "Prime"-argument for UPVALUING Ali's wins and DOWNVALUING Ali's bad performances I can use it the other way around.

Moreover I could claim that Foreman was not in his prime yet and that's the reason why he lost to Ali. And that Liston was past his prime. And now what?

That's why I never argue with some "Prime"-nonsense: Because it's based on opinion and not facts. It's actually a "killer excuse" especially used by Tyson-fans ("Oh, Tyson was past his prime") to explain everything away.

BTW-It is easier to see a person right in front of you than drive a car idiot.

How many half-blind boxers did you interview? And did you just insult me because you lost the argument?

Here are FACTS that you can not refute.So I quess I will get only "excuses" from the excuse man.How can you downgrade Ali's big wins when he was way past his prime when he beat them? I notice you never mention that Muhammad Ali was fighting after his 3 1/2 year lay-off when beating Foreman and Frazier twice?

Yeah so? CLAYtons never mention how easily Frazier was dismantled by Foreman. THAT is a comparison by FACTS: Ali needed 41 rounds against Frazier (only to be KDed and UDed) while Foreman KDed and KOed Frazier several times easily within 7 rounds.

[boxing boy]

I notice some of you guys are bringing up Ken Norton.Muhammad Ali fought Norton after his 3 1/2 year lay-off.We are talking Prime vs Prime in this thread.

It's a testimony that Ali beat Frazier twice and KO'd Foreman after his 3 1/2 year lay-off.One can only imagine if Ali fought them in his prime.And what he would do to Norton in his Prime of 1966/67.

So lets keep this a prime vs prime senario.

Thank you