How High do You rate Jack Johnson in your ATG heavyweight list?

[Jim Jeffries]

if you're saying that i attacked you then i was in fact correct - you are too emotional.

I'm here to discuss boxing, not to be flamed. Period, end of story. Have you yet any insight into this thread, or is it all about me?

A thread at CBZ covered this a while back with some links back to news coverage of the times which HEAVILY FAVORED an easy Johnson win: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzfo...ead.php?t=6705

Fair enough, but from that same thread.

The Police Gazette made the interesting observation that the fight should cost both men a shot at Jim Jeffries: Hart because he looked so bad winning, and Johnson because his effort was so lackadaisicle.

"Prior to last night there were two men who were considered eligible to be pitted against Champion Jeffries, but when the smoke of battle had cleared away after twenty rounds of mediocre fighting, it was the unanimous opinion of the spectators that neither Marvin Hart, who was declared the winner, nor Jack Johnson would have a look in with the big boilermaker.

"There is no doubt that Jeff could take the two men on the same evening, fighting each man alternate rounds, and put them both away inside ten rounds. . ." (Chicago Tribune, 3/30/1905 p. 6.)



And by all accounts, Hart was the aggressor the whole night and Johnson did absolutely nothing for at least the last 3 rounds. Leading to the comparison of the Tito/Oscar fight.


Can anyone give me Johnson's top 5 wins?

[Calilloyd]

I'm here to discuss boxing, not to be flamed. Period, end of story. Have you yet any insight into this thread, or is it all about me?



Fair enough, but from that same thread.

The Police Gazette made the interesting observation that the fight should cost both men a shot at Jim Jeffries: Hart because he looked so bad winning, and Johnson because his effort was so lackadaisicle.

"Prior to last night there were two men who were considered eligible to be pitted against Champion Jeffries, but when the smoke of battle had cleared away after twenty rounds of mediocre fighting, it was the unanimous opinion of the spectators that neither Marvin Hart, who was declared the winner, nor Jack Johnson would have a look in with the big boilermaker.

"There is no doubt that Jeff could take the two men on the same evening, fighting each man alternate rounds, and put them both away inside ten rounds. . ." (Chicago Tribune, 3/30/1905 p. 6.)



And by all accounts, Hart was the aggressor the whole night and Johnson did absolutely nothing for at least the last 3 rounds. Leading to the comparison of the Tito/Oscar fight.


Can anyone give me Johnson's top 5 wins?

Are you going to change the subject? Or can you answer the question directed towards your original uniformed comments on this subject? I didn't think so.

[Jim Jeffries]

Are you going to change the subject? Or can you answer the question directed towards your original uniformed comments on this subject? I didn't think so.

Give me Johnson's 5 greatest wins, or do you not have a clue?

[Calilloyd]

Give me Johnson's 5 greatest wins, or do you not have a clue?

I already know. You're the one that doesn't have a clue and most people in this thread can see that. And it's already been pointed out. All you've done is run away from the questions regarding your comments and hide behind the "I don't want to flame" excuse. You have something to prove, not me.

[Jim Jeffries]

I already know. You're the one that doesn't have a clue and most people in this thread can see that. And it's already been pointed out. All you've done is run away from the questions regarding your comments and hide behind the "I don't want to flame" excuse. You have something to prove, not me.

Who would you like me to respond to? The guy who was banned, or the one spamming this thread with stuff like this:

Top of the FOOD CHAIN bruh. To me he's the best HW to walk the earth. Thanks for the thread mayne.

What were his top 5 wins? I'll give you a chance to browse Boxrec.

[Calilloyd]

Who would you like me to respond to? The guy who was banned, or the one spamming this thread with stuff like this:




What were his top 5 wins? I'll give you a chance to browse Boxrec.

Boxrec is your source,not mine. I don't need to look up something I already know. Your question is irrelevant and has no relation to your false statements earlier. Why did you lie about Denver Ed being "green" when he fought Johnson? Why do you overlook the talents of fighters like Sam Langford, Sam Mcvea, Joe Jeanette, Frank Childs, and Klon***e Haines? All fighters that Johnson beat. Why make statements about something you obviously know nothing about? why did you leave out that Johnson dominated fireman Jim Flynn? A man that not only beat Jack Dempsey, but knocked him cold? Why do you speak on things you know nothing about? That's not even half of what I can throw at you. But considering that you still have not come up with an answer for your earlier false statements, I wont overwhelm you. Boxrec.com won't help you with this so don't even bother. I'll let you read and think about it.



THE CHAMPIONS REPORT ON THEIR BIGGEST MOMENTS


Jack Johnson Cuts Down Jim Jeffries (1910)


Jeffries gamely hung on and, in the 11th, sent a flurry of blows to Johnson's body, bringing the crowd to its feet. But Johnson just kept on smiling. It ended in the 15th, with the black man sending Jeffries to the canvas time and again. Corbett was now pleading with Johnson to stop. "Don't let the Negro knock him out!" screamed the crowd. Jeffries got up again, and Johnson put him back down. A towel was thrown into the ring from Jeffries's corner, but Rickard didn't see it. When one of Jeffries's seconds illegally stepped into the ring, Rickard stopped the count at seven and raised Johnson's arm in victory. Jeffries had at least been spared the crowning shame of being counted out.


As I Saw It


Johnson's first words after the fight were "I could have fought for two hours longer. It was easy. Where is my lucky bathrobe? Somebody wire to my mother. I wish it was longer. I was having lots of fun. Not one blow hurt me. He can't hit."


Later he would be more gracious. "One thing I must give Jeffries credit for is the game battle he made. He came back at me with the heart of a true fighter. No man can say he did not do his best. I believe we both fought fairly. There was nothing said between us which was rough. He joked me and I joked him. I told him I knew he was a bear, but I was a gorilla and would defeat him."


Jeffries, while still in the ring, his bruised face being attended to by his physician, bowed his head in his hands and groaned, "I was too old to come back."


After returning to his training camp, Jeffries said, "I guess it's all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as 'the white man's hope,' I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment. . . .Six years ago the result would have been different, but now--well, I guess the public will let me alone after this."


Yet, despite the sports-page theorizing about what he might have done to Johnson when he was still in his prime, Jeffries would later admit, "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best. I couldn't have hit him. No, I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years."


Still later, when Jeffries was informed that the $192,066 he made on the fight was far more than he'd ever earned previously, he would say that the beating he took was not worth it.

[Jim Jeffries]

Boxrec is your source,not mine. I don't need to look up something I already know. Your question is irrelevant and has no relation to your false statements earlier. Why did you lie about Denver Ed being "green" when he fought Johnson? Why do you overlook the talents of fighters like Sam Langford, Sam Mcvea, Joe Jeanette, Frank Childs, and Klon***e Haines? All fighters that Johnson beat. Why make statements about something you obviously know nothing about? why did you leave out that Johnson dominated fireman Jim Flynn? A man that not only beat Jack Dempsey, but knocked him cold? Why do you speak on things you know nothing about? That's not even half of what I can throw at you. But considering that you still have not come up with an answer for your earlier false statements, I wont overwhelm you. Boxrec.com won't help you with this so don't even bother. I'll let you read and think about it.



THE CHAMPIONS REPORT ON THEIR BIGGEST MOMENTS


Jack Johnson Cuts Down Jim Jeffries (1910)


Jeffries gamely hung on and, in the 11th, sent a flurry of blows to Johnson's body, bringing the crowd to its feet. But Johnson just kept on smiling. It ended in the 15th, with the black man sending Jeffries to the canvas time and again. Corbett was now pleading with Johnson to stop. "Don't let the Negro knock him out!" screamed the crowd. Jeffries got up again, and Johnson put him back down. A towel was thrown into the ring from Jeffries's corner, but Rickard didn't see it. When one of Jeffries's seconds illegally stepped into the ring, Rickard stopped the count at seven and raised Johnson's arm in victory. Jeffries had at least been spared the crowning shame of being counted out.


As I Saw It


Johnson's first words after the fight were "I could have fought for two hours longer. It was easy. Where is my lucky bathrobe? Somebody wire to my mother. I wish it was longer. I was having lots of fun. Not one blow hurt me. He can't hit."


Later he would be more gracious. "One thing I must give Jeffries credit for is the game battle he made. He came back at me with the heart of a true fighter. No man can say he did not do his best. I believe we both fought fairly. There was nothing said between us which was rough. He joked me and I joked him. I told him I knew he was a bear, but I was a gorilla and would defeat him."


Jeffries, while still in the ring, his bruised face being attended to by his physician, bowed his head in his hands and groaned, "I was too old to come back."


After returning to his training camp, Jeffries said, "I guess it's all my own fault. I was getting along nicely and living peacefully on my alfalfa farm, but when they started calling for me and mentioning me as 'the white man's hope,' I guess my pride got the better of my good judgment. . . .Six years ago the result would have been different, but now--well, I guess the public will let me alone after this."


Yet, despite the sports-page theorizing about what he might have done to Johnson when he was still in his prime, Jeffries would later admit, "I could never have whipped Jack Johnson at my best. I couldn't have hit him. No, I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years."


Still later, when Jeffries was informed that the $192,066 he made on the fight was far more than he'd ever earned previously, he would say that the beating he took was not worth it.

I pointed out the inexperience of most of those fighters at the time they faced Johnson.

What is the rest of this copy/paste nonsense that you didn't even provide a link to?

Top 5 wins and please don't say a Jim Jeffries that hadn't fought in SIX YEARS.


How many complete Johnson fights have you seen BTW?

[Calilloyd]

I pointed out the inexperience of most of those fighters at the time they faced Johnson.

What is the rest of this copy/paste nonsense that you didn't even provide a link to?
Top 5 wins and please don't say a Jim Jeffries that hadn't fought in SIX YEARS.


How many complete Johnson fights have you seen BTW?

http://www.trivia-library.com/b/boxing-history-jack-johnson-beats-jim-jeffries-in-their-own-words-part-2.htm

There is your link. What other excuses are you going to come up with now? You said Denver Ed was "green" when Johnson fought him which was a flat out lie and was proven as such. You also completely ignored the list of fighters I gave you. Still grasping at straws I see lol.

[Jim Jeffries]

http://www.trivia-library.com/b/boxi...rds-part-2.htm


There is your link. What other excuses are you going to come up with now? You said Denver Ed was "green" when Johnson fought him which was a flat out lie and was proven as such. You also completely ignored the list of fighters I gave you. Still grasping at straws I see lol.

I said a guy with 15 pro fights was fairly green, and I stand by that comment.

Though I guess he was a seasoned veteran in comparison to some of the other top fighters that Johnson faced (and that you give him full credit for.)

Why would I need to grasp at straws when there isn't a single post in this thread that lends any credence as to why Johnson should be ranked the third greatest HW of all time.

I have him near the bottom of my top 10 list, so I am by no means calling him a bum. But the more I look, the lower he slips.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

I said a guy with 15 pro fights was fairly green, and I stand by that comment.

Though I guess he was a seasoned veteran in comparison to some of the other top fighters that Johnson faced (and that you give him full credit for.)

Why would I need to grasp at straws when there isn't a single post in this thread that lends any credence as to why Johnson should be ranked the third greatest HW of all time.

I have him near the bottom of my top 10 list, so I am by no means calling him a bum. But the more I look, the lower he slips.

Hank. I am surprised to see that you consider what I have to offer to this thread spam. I posted a comment directed to you later on in the thread that was laced with facts about Jack Johnson and the fights that you mentioned as well as a name or two that you left out(for what ever reason, maybe you didn't realize how significant to the history of Boxing they were). I have awaited your return to this thread so that I could RESPECTFULLY engage you in a debate about Jack's accomplishments, but I see that you still offer nothing concrete to help your arguement.

Now I respect you as a human being, but I find it a little bit disheartening that you shot down MY feelings on MY ranking of Jack Johnson in the ATG HW conversation that is this thread, and refered to it as mere SPAM. I am a man of my word and told you that I would be checking this thread for your return, you have completely disappointed me with your responses thus far, and now YOU(my friend)are slipping as a respectable poster in MY view.

But I DO have faith in you Hank. And truely do await for you to contribute a post with some substance so that I can RESPECTFULLY engage you in an intelligent conversation about Jack Johnson and his place in Boxing history.

And since I have not seen you answer any of the questions that I have posed to you I will one up this discussion and answer you question about some of the top fighters that Jack has faced and defeated before he won the HW title:

Klon***e
Sam McVea
Sam Langford
Frank Childs
Denver Ed
Joe Jeanette
"Young" Peter Jackson
Claude Brooks
Bob Fitzsimmons
"Fireman" Jim Flynn
Jim Jeffords

The last fighter is a cookie for you, as Jim Jeffords greatest victory is over none other than the legendary Peter Jackson(you do know that even "The Boston Strong Boy" ducked Peter Jackson right????????).

Again I await your response; BUT do not disrespect me or posts again as I try my best to share my knowledge of Boxing respectfully and only ask that I recieve the same in return.