How High do You rate Jack Johnson in your ATG heavyweight list?

[gran campeon]

Johnson regularly beat wives/women so bad they were laid up in hospitals. That's all I need to know to see him as both a worthwhile public symbol against a social evil and a worthless prick as a human being.

its ok, they were **********s....i guess joe louis ray robinson monzon tyson etc arent legends either....

[razzledaz 38]

he was great in his time but would be out worked against any decent modern heavyweight

[T.Horton]

There is so much to comment on with your view of these fighters that I dont know where to begin.

If you consider the Denver Ed bouts to be "pretty good" then I probably shouldn't bother typing because I'm not sure HOW familiar you are with him and other pugilists like Sam Langford, Sam Mcvea, Joe Jeanette, Frank Childs, and Klon***e Haines.

As for Denver Ed being "green" I dont buy that in the least bit; he was already the HW "colored" champ by the time he met Jack Johnson(Denver Ed had beaten Frank Childs by then)so your excuse for Ed being "green" is useless there. Young Peter Jackson was not battle worn as you suggest, as he in his very next fight after his loss to Jack; went on to beat Sam Langford by TKO(who he lost to twice before Jack).

As for the 1st Joe Jeanette fight; you do realize that Jack Johnson fought TWO men that day, and KO'd Walter Johnson after going the distance with Joe Jeanette(name me another HW who had a better day at the office.......I'll be waiting for your reply).

On to Sam McVea. I'll give you that Sam was fairly "green" in the 1st fight but not the 2nd or 3rd, as he had KO'd Denver Ed one month before Jack decisioned him again(for 20 rds no less).

Marvin Hart was no push over as he won the vacant HW title that Jefferies left behind. And many felt that Jack Johnson was robbed in that fight. If you want to talk about a valid loss talk about the Joe Choynski fight(as I'm sure you know who he is and what he is remembered for(1st LHW among some of his accomplishments). These are just some points if you like I can go on all day about Jack Johnson, but I'd like you to take these facts of Jack that I've posted into consideration, and once you've thought them over please do respond. I'll come back to this thread to check to see what you have to say potna.

oh my! green k.

[T.Horton]

No they didn't lynch Jack; they just made up a law for him(Mann Act).

Technically the Mann Act was in place Johnson, I am not sure if Johnson was the first person charged with it.

great debate though.

[T.Horton]

Not in the slightest.

You're a guy who has him at 3. Maybe you could give me some insight as to why? Because try as I might, I just don't see it. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just here to educate myself from those more knowledgeable on the subject.

Instead I keep getting attacked. Even worse, by people that so far have contributed zero to this thread, like yourself.

if you're saying that i attacked you then i was in fact correct - you are too emotional.

[Telepath]

A thread at CBZ covered this a while back with some links back to news coverage of the times which HEAVILY FAVORED an easy Johnson win: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzfo...ead.php?t=6705

So, Hank, are you going to conveniently ignore this response from a person who actually knows what he's talking about, or are you going to man up and confess you're full of ****?

[oaklandstephen]

Nat Fliescher said,"Johnson was the greatest of all times"

he lied ............

[EzzardFan]

And Jack beat Tommy so bad the police stopped the fight and the film crew from filming Jack finishing Tommy off.

I'm with you here. I too think JJ was in the top three and perhaps at number one spot.

If you watch the video f the Burns fight, every time Tommy passes out Jack clinches with him and holds him up until he comes round again, just so that he can resume the punishment.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

Technically the Mann Act was in place Johnson, I am not sure if Johnson was the first person charged with it.

great debate though.

Whats goin on Tim my man? The Mann act was brought into existance in 1910. Johnson won the HW title in 1908. They made that law up just for him, as he ruffled the alot of feathers when he got off the boat in British Columbia(if I'm not mistaken....I'm going off of memory, no google.lol.) with a white woman in arm. He was refused a room in all of BC, because of this and it cascaded down hill from there. But to confirm your su****ions; Yes Jack Johnson is the 1st to be prosecuted tried and convicted of the Mann act, thanks to the testimony of Belle, who had no problem traveling to see Jack when he was in or out of state.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

I'm with you here. I too think JJ was in the top three and perhaps at number one spot.

If you watch the video f the Burns fight, every time Tommy passes out Jack clinches with him and holds him up until he comes round again, just so that he can resume the punishment.

I love that fight!!!!!!! It's a shame they cut the cameras off before he finished Tommy off.