Anyone else agree SRR is overrated?

[donkim]

I came to the conclusion that he is overrated.

And nobody can tell you that you're wrong because it's your opinion.A case for Robinson being overrated has already been demonstrated in this thread.Those who see Robinson as untouchable to any form of criticism.


I listed a few fighters(quite a few who are highly regarded)who Robinson could have and perhaps should have fought and the excuse given is that there was no demand for such fights,as if the public had a say in every single one of Robinson's opponents.


Robinson and Louis fought alot of top ranked white opponents,but when it came to fighting the elite black fighters of their day they came up short in stepping in the ring with them.


Jack Dempsey to this day is still criticized for not fighting a few elite black fighters,why are Robinson and Louis not open for the same criticism?

[JAB5239]

There are a couple of cases that are too sensitive for the type of people that you see in this thread. With bumbeater and Gay Robinson I usually do not bother wasting my time. No matter what "explanation" I would give you lads, there is something in your brain that triggers an immense refusal to be objective and an emotional response of lashing out with anger and refusal. Cause of the moment you became a boxing fan, you were spoonfed these things about these fighters and to this day you refuse to accept otherwise, because if you see someone disagreeing with those ideals, it goes against everything you were ever taught about Boxing. It just stuck with your characters. For me personally, my lists change all the time. And nothing is more obvious to me than Muhammed Ali being the greatest boxer ever, and I debated this in the past. I also started out as a parrot thinking SRR is God, #1 fo sheezy mah neezy. But when I developd my own mind and opinions, I came to the conclusion that he is overrated.

Whats funny to me is how will consistently contradict yourself when rating fighters. You've said Larry Holmes is overrated because He had some fights that were close and YOU consider robberies. Yet you have Ali p4p the best of all time despite the Young fight, the Norton fights, Doug Jones and both fights with Sonny Liston, which many consider controversial. Does your hypocrisy have no limits?

[JAB5239]

And nobody can tell you that you're wrong because it's your opinion.A case for Robinson being overrated has already been demonstrated in this thread.Those who see Robinson as untouchable to any form of criticism.

Opinions are fine. But don't act like they're the end all if you refuse to back them up with facts.

I listed a few fighters(quite a few who are highly regarded)who Robinson could have and perhaps should have fought and the excuse given is that there was no demand for such fights,as if the public had a say in every single one of Robinson's opponents.

Of course there are fights we would have like to have seen. But does this detract from all the great fighters he did fight?

Robinson and Louis fought alot of top ranked white opponents,but when it came to fighting the elite black fighters of their day they came up short in stepping in the ring with them.

Who were the top black fighters Louis didn't get in the ring with?

As far as Robinson goes, you simply don't understand the climate of the times. And as I already pointed out, it still can't detract from all the great fighters he did fight.

Jack Dempsey to this day is still criticized for not fighting a few elite black fighters,why are Robinson and Louis not open for the same criticism?

Dempsey is criticized for not fighting Wills, a fighter he signed to fight twice only to have the fight scrapped by the powers that be. If you want to flip the script wills refused a fight with Gene Tunney. Should that be used against Wills whole career and all the great fighters he did get in the ring with and beat? I don't think so.

[Obama]

Only real African American threat Louis ducked was a prime Jimmy Bivins. 1 dude, big whoop. Dempsey ducked AA fighters when ALL the elite fighters happened to be AA. And I'm talking about before he won the title. Forget his fights afterwards, "product of the time" theory applies there. It also doesn't help Dempsey's case that the one respectable AA opponent he faced, John Lester Johnson, he couldn't beat and ended up with a gift draw.

Joe Louis on the other hand fought a prime Jersey Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles after he was already past it (especially in the Charles fight), defending his title twice against Walcott in the process. Only other real AA threats Louis didn't fight (Bivins aside) were Light Heavyweights who hadn't really proven themselves worthy at Heavyweight (at the time).

[Suckmedry]

There are a couple of cases that are too sensitive for the type of people that you see in this thread. With bumbeater and Gay Robinson I usually do not bother wasting my time. No matter what "explanation" I would give you lads, there is something in your brain that triggers an immense refusal to be objective and an emotional response of lashing out with anger and refusal. Cause of the moment you became a boxing fan, you were spoonfed these things about these fighters and to this day you refuse to accept otherwise, because if you see someone disagreeing with those ideals, it goes against everything you were ever taught about Boxing. It just stuck with your characters. For me personally, my lists change all the time. And nothing is more obvious to me than Muhammed Ali being the greatest boxer ever, and I debated this in the past. I also started out as a parrot thinking SRR is God, #1 fo sheezy mah neezy. But when I developd my own mind and opinions, I came to the conclusion that he is overrated.

Oh the hypocrisy!

[GJC]

Only real African American threat Louis ducked was a prime Jimmy Bivins.

I discussed this on here with GreatA a while back and we pretty much came to the conclusion that the timing wasn't right more than anything.
Bivins great peak year was 43 I believe when Louis had the title on ice.
I guess you could say he took care of Bivins in his later years when both were shot so maybe indicates the result had both been prime?

[donkim]

Doug Jones

The less said about Ali's fight with Doug Jones the better.It's quite clear that most have never seen this fight,or won't ever make the effort to go watch it and see that Jones never won more than three rounds.


If it were not for the fact that there is complete footage of this fight available,we would have been led to believe that Jones actually deserved the decision against Ali.

[GJC]

The less said about Ali's fight with Doug Jones the better.It's quite clear that most have never seen this fight,or won't ever make the effort to go watch it and see that Jones never won more than three rounds.


If it were not for the fact that there is complete footage of this fight available,we would have been led to believe that Jones actually deserved the decision against Ali.

Must say that I never thought Jones won this, put up a good show but thats about it.
One thing I have learnt over the years is some fights just get closer and closer with time.

[Slimey Limey]

And nobody can tell you that you're wrong because it's your opinion.A case for Robinson being overrated has already been demonstrated in this thread.Those who see Robinson as untouchable to any form of criticism.


I listed a few fighters(quite a few who are highly regarded)who Robinson could have and perhaps should have fought and the excuse given is that there was no demand for such fights,as if the public had a say in every single one of Robinson's opponents.


Robinson and Louis fought alot of top ranked white opponents,but when it came to fighting the elite black fighters of their day they came up short in stepping in the ring with them.


Jack Dempsey to this day is still criticized for not fighting a few elite black fighters,why are Robinson and Louis not open for the same criticism?

Well put mate.

Whats funny to me is how will consistently contradict yourself when rating fighters. You've said Larry Holmes is overrated because He had some fights that were close and YOU consider robberies. Yet you have Ali p4p the best of all time despite the Young fight, the Norton fights, Doug Jones and both fights with Sonny Liston, which many consider controversial. Does your hypocrisy have no limits?

Neither Liston fights are controversial because nobody has ever brought forward evidence to back up their claims. It's all speculation. Ali ripped his heart out, that's the only controversial thing about it.

Doug Jones fight wasn't close at all. I think lads like you got a bit too excited seeing a pre mature Ali get knocked down. If he lost then anyone who gets knocked down has lost the fight.

The Young and third Norton fight were close. I scored both fights for Ali but I can see if people saw it diffirently.

That's 2 compared to 4-5 from Lar "***** style" Holmes. Any other fighter you want to discredit in this thread just to defend your boys?

[jkaisen41]

I mean he fought a bunch of mediocre fighters 200 times is that grounds for P4P.

SRL IMO has the better resume just by beating Hearns and Hagler.

That is all.

If you fought as many fights as SRR did there is no way that everyone one of them could be great or very good. Of course he has some fighters on his resume who are mediocre.

SRL ain't fought guys like Hagler and Heanrs all the time either.

If guys like Graziano or Fullmer are only seen as tough guys without skill you still have to consider that a) toughness, determination is a part of boxing too and b) this was a time where there was only one champion... not like today where you can choose the weakest champion... so if only toughness won it them... they had to be damn tough *loooooooooooooooooool*

He ruled WW... an era were there were pretty good WW's... he was still very, very good at MW... not untouchable anymore... but still competive with them all... he also I think avenged all of his looses up until his 200 fights...

Some may make him look invincible which he wasn't... but he was pretty hard to beat even way after his prime. I think he deserves what he gets as a boxer and pretty much every other boxer would tell you the same I guess