Anyone else agree SRR is overrated?

[TheGreatA]

I don't think Louis really ducked Bivins. Truthfully it was the war that ruined his chances, when Louis came back from the war Bivins ended up losing to Walcott which ended his prime as a contender. The two fought numerous exhibitions against each other and Louis stated that Bivins was the toughest opponent he ever fought in boxing exhibitions.

Another black fighter that Louis is said to have avoided was Elmer 'Violent' Ray whom Louis personally disliked. It is overlooked though that Louis knocked him out cold in an exhibition. Lem Franklin was real close to getting a title shot against Louis in the early 1940's but he was derailed by Bob Pastor.

Most of the men that Sugar Ray is accused of ducking were competing at higher weight classes and weren't ranked in Robinson's division. Unlike Dempsey, Robinson did fight the highly rated black fighters of the day, Kid Gavilan, George Costner, Tommy Bell and California Jackie Wilson, all among the top 3 at the time, not to mention Henry Armstrong who was still number 1 rated. Randy Turpin was also black but he seems to be dismissed by the critics as a challenger because he was British. Considering that Robinson fought all these men, it can't be said that he was drawing a "color line" of any kind.

[TheGreatA]

Jack Dempsey was actually very close to fighting Joe Jeannette one time, but he turned the opportunity down, or to be more accurate his manager did. He was supposed to box an easy opponent and was surprised to see an older but still competent Jeannette in the ring calling him out. According to newspaper reports, Dempsey seemed ready to fight Jeannette but his manager called the fight off. It was thought to be a disgrace to boxing.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=1946,1002575

[sonnyboyx2]

I don't think Louis really ducked Bivins. Truthfully it was the war that ruined his chances, when Louis came back from the war Bivins ended up losing to Walcott which ended his prime as a contender. The two fought numerous exhibitions against each other and Louis stated that Bivins was the toughest opponent he ever fought in boxing exhibitions.

Another black fighter that Louis is said to have avoided was Elmer 'Violent' Ray whom Louis personally disliked. It is overlooked though that Louis knocked him out cold in an exhibition. Lem Franklin was real close to getting a title shot against Louis in the early 1940's but he was derailed by Bob Pastor.

Most of the men that Sugar Ray is accused of ducking were competing at higher weight classes and weren't ranked in Robinson's division. Unlike Dempsey, Robinson did fight the highly rated black fighters of the day, Kid Gavilan, George Costner, Tommy Bell and California Jackie Wilson, all among the top 3 at the time, not to mention Henry Armstrong who was still number 1 rated. Randy Turpin was also black but he seems to be dismissed by the critics as a challenger because he was British. Considering that Robinson fought all these men, it can't be said that he was drawing a "color line" of any kind.

Robinson vs George Costner-- in the weeks leading up to their fight Costner was telling all the reporters that he was the real sugar and he would prove it in the ring with his boxing skills.. on fight night as both fighters was getting the referee`s instructions at ring centre, Robinson leaned forward and said to Costner `Touch gloves now coz this fight is only lasting one round, you aint sugar, that name is mine`.. Robinson knocked Costner cold in the opening round, Costner had to be taken from the ring on a stretcher.

[Slimey Limey]

Robinson vs George Costner-- in the weeks leading up to their fight Costner was telling all the reporters that he was the real sugar and he would prove it in the ring with his boxing skills.. on fight night as both fighters was getting the referee`s instructions at ring centre, Robinson leaned forward and said to Costner `Touch gloves now coz this fight is only lasting one round, you aint sugar, that name is mine`.. Robinson knocked Costner cold in the opening round, Costner had to be taken from the ring on a stretcher.

He didn't enjoy beating a man up badly after he killed that poor fella, that's for sure.

[billionaire]

Jack Dempsey was actually very close to fighting Joe Jeannette one time, but he turned the opportunity down, or to be more accurate his manager did. He was supposed to box an easy opponent and was surprised to see an older but still competent Jeannette in the ring calling him out. According to newspaper reports, Dempsey seemed ready to fight Jeannette but his manager called the fight off. It was thought to be a disgrace to boxing.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...g=1946,1002575

this is the biggest bull**** ever, if you really wanna fight someone you wouldnt let your manager hold you back....that goes for any fighter throughout history...

[JAB5239]

]Must say that I never thought Jones won this[/B], put up a good show but thats about it.
One thing I have learnt over the years is some fights just get closer and closer with time.

Agreed. It was a very close fight, much the same way Holmes-Williams was a close fight. Im just curious about the double standard slimey has set here.

[JAB5239]

Neither Liston fights are controversial because nobody has ever brought forward evidence to back up their claims. It's all speculation. Ali ripped his heart out, that's the only controversial thing about it.

Lmao!! Neither were controversial, huh? You really are a laugh a minute.

Doug Jones fight wasn't close at all. I think lads like you got a bit too excited seeing a pre mature Ali get knocked down. If he lost then anyone who gets knocked down has lost the fight.

Maybe you should watch the fight again.

The Young and third Norton fight were close. I scored both fights for Ali but I can see if people saw it diffirently.

That's 2 compared to 4-5 from Lar "***** style" Holmes. Any other fighter you want to discredit in this thread just to defend your boys?

2? The young fight, the 2 fights Ali got the nod over Norton and the Jones fight. You might want to try a remedial math course because by my count thats 4.

[Slimey Limey]

Lmao!! Neither were controversial, huh? You really are a laugh a minute.

How convenient to leave out the other crucial part of my post. Tell me, do you have actual evidence to back up your claims? Because without that, it's a fact that Ali made Liston quit and the second time he knocked him down and the referee screwed the rest up.
And how does this compare to what I was reffering to about Holmes mate? Old man, I know you're slow but this is getting redicilous. I'm talking about close fights that most people saw as robberies. Was Liston robbed by Ali?

Maybe you should watch the fight again.

Take your own advice. Even your God thegreat****** doesn't think Douggie won that fight.

2? The young fight, the 2 fights Ali got the nod over Norton and the Jones fight. You might want to try a remedial math course because by my count thats 4.

Don't try to make this a math game old man, because you wouldn't win that.
Ali definitely won the second fight against Norton. Only his haters like you argue otherwise and love to claim he lost 3 fights against Norton. It's only the 3rd fight that could have gone either way. Same for the Young fight.

2 against 4-5. Holmes has more gift decisions than any other ATG. He's as overrated as bumbeater.

Now, which other fighter do you want to discredit just to defend your lads?

[JAB5239]

How convenient to leave out the other crucial part of my post. Tell me, do you have actual evidence to back up your claims? Because without that, it's a fact that Ali made Liston quit and the second time he knocked him down and the referee screwed the rest up.
And how does this compare to what I was reffering to about Holmes mate? Old man, I know you're slow but this is getting redicilous. I'm talking about close fights that most people saw as robberies. Was Liston robbed by Ali?

Do you really need evidence that the fight was controversial? Come on, not even you can be that dense.

Take your own advice. Even your God thegreat****** doesn't think Douggie won that fight.

And you show me where I said Jones won, right? I didn't, but quite a few have.

Don't try to make this a math game old man, because you wouldn't win that.Ali definitely won the second fight against Norton. Only his haters like you argue otherwise and love to claim he lost 3 fights against Norton. It's only the 3rd fight that could have gone either way. Same for the Young fight.

I've already won. You were either to blind or to ****** to count past two, ya ta ta.

2 against 4-5. Holmes has more gift decisions than any other ATG. He's as overrated as bumbeater.

Lmao!!! It must burn you up that most respected historians have Louis in the top 2 and Holmes anywhere between 3 and 7 all time huh?

Now, which other fighter do you want to discredit just to defend your lads?

(yawn) Im growing tired now. You're like an old joke. Amusing at first, now you're just boring. Try harder Slimey.

[TBear]

Everybody in history was overrated! Sugar Ray Robinson was just a little better than all them.