Does Anyone Think Ali Isn't Even In The Top Five ATG's?

[max baer]

Can I ask if anyone thinks Ali was very over rated and wasn't even in the top 5 ATG's
Argue why. I read an article that said Ali was lucky in the period he found himself but wasn't in the top 5 best ever. It goes against everyone but does anyone think purely in terms of boxing he wasn't that great. I think we can agree his personality was the best but can anyone argue he wasn't in the top 5 best ever hw's. or top 10 pound for pound ATG's.

[DeeMoney]

I think most people, who willingly rate heavies in a P4P list, will have Ali in about the 4-8 range, so I don't think its that odd. I easily see SRR, Langford, and Greb ahead of him on most lists, while fighters like Charles, SRL, Duran, and Armstrong are all in roughly that same range as Ali, and as such can be rated ahead of him without batting an eye.

I probably have him in that 4-8 spot at any given time.

[NotIron]

He’s without any doubt the #1 HW of all time IMO. I struggle to see how that could even be argued.

As for all time standing, I can see him not being Top 5 but he’s minimum Top 10 for me.

[max baer]

He’s without any doubt the #1 HW of all time IMO. I struggle to see how that could even be argued.

As for all time standing, I can see him not being Top 5 but he’s minimum Top 10 for me.

yes i agree but I wondered if anyone can make an arguement against this long held belief of most. some would see louis and lewis and others well above ali. the arguements against ali being the ultimate best are rare and yet it makes me wonder when i sometimes read these. Ali never ever threw a bodyshot did he? They argue his technique was not that brilliant among other points.

[Coverdale]

Can I ask if anyone thinks Ali was very over rated and wasn't even in the top 5 ATG's
Argue why. I read an article that said Ali was lucky in the period he found himself but wasn't in the top 5 best ever. It goes against everyone but does anyone think purely in terms of boxing he wasn't that great. I think we can agree his personality was the best but can anyone argue he wasn't in the top 5 best ever hw's. or top 10 pound for pound ATG's.

Sounds like you discovered a contrarian piece from an attention seeker. Was it written by some random on Twitter?

[Willie Pep 229]

As a man with a g-ambling problem, which is how I view every match-up . . .

Ali goes the distance with every HW Champion and defeats most if not all.

So at HW no one stops him. And he had the size and tools to beat anyone on any given night.

I don't do the P4P thing very well. No opinion.

But definitely, Ali is at, or near the top, of everyones ATG HW list.

[Nash out]

Ali was an entertaining guy (outside the ring, not in it), but if his fights were scored correctly, and excluded the dives, his record was not so good and he lost about 10 fights, including 3 to Ken Norton. Rocky Balboa, with wins over Hulk Hogan, Creed, Mr. T, Ivan Drago and more, is the best OldGen boxer, but even he, compared to NextGen men like Jake "The Great" Paul, Tyson Fury, and Oleksandr Usyk, falls a bit short. Nash out - His Majesty

[them_apples]

Can I ask if anyone thinks Ali was very over rated and wasn't even in the top 5 ATG's
Argue why. I read an article that said Ali was lucky in the period he found himself but wasn't in the top 5 best ever. It goes against everyone but does anyone think purely in terms of boxing he wasn't that great. I think we can agree his personality was the best but can anyone argue he wasn't in the top 5 best ever hw's. or top 10 pound for pound ATG's.

p4p? no Ali shouldn't be. At heavyweight, he is near the top though - as heavyweights having incredible records are few and far between.

The problem with Ali, is he made everyone he fought famous, so we lose track of who was actually good and who wasn't. guys like Chuvalo, Terrell, Williams - these are basically ham and eggers that would be in Louis' "bum of the month" club - but Ali really used the television to sell his greatness. Ali was certainly a great fighter - but have a look how he faired against Doug Jones, or Cooper nearly icing him. Nobody puts much thought into what happened there, but seem to degrade Louis for strugging with Conn, a man he knocked out.

Both Louis and Ali are hard to judge because they stood head and shoulders above their competition, it's hard to know how good anyone is. Even Liston - he was sold as a monster but his resume does not reflect this, losing when green, in his prime and past his prime.

The more I watch Ali vs Jones and Cooper, The more I think Joe Louis knocks him out late. they both shone bright under the lights - nobody would have got into anyones heads. just 2 massive egos colliding. Ali however, fights with his hands down, and uses up a lot of energy fighting the way he does - I think think Louis would have caught him, and likely stopped him. Ali is quick, and he does move well - and Conn gave Louis trouble doing this - However Ali is a bigger target than Conn and the stakes would be higher. We can pull the same logic and say - Doug Jones isn't anywhere near Louis level, and he had no trouble catching Ali for the entire fight. Cooper did catch Ali.

[The Big Dunce]

As a heavyweight only, not as P4P.

[SouthpawRight]

We revere beating up bigger guys. This is measured by moving up in weight and beating great opponents. Heavyweights do not have the option of going up a weight class

1. Sugar Robinson
2. Harry
3. Henry
4. Sam
5. Ezzard
6. Willie
7. Muhammad
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